Have you broken any windows yet?
Vandalized any ARRA signs?
So why are you so eager to jump to guns?
If you don't have the cojones to do the one, why are you screaming to the rest of us to do the other?
Here's a suggestion: Shut the hell up about the last step until you do some intermediate steps.
28 comments:
Well that was a pretty emotional response to my question.
But let me be clear, I wasn't asking anyone to do anything. We all have to determine in our own hearts when is the time to react and how to do so, and we have to ask ourselves that question. Now, not later.
Settle down, Mike. I'm on your side.
WarriorClass
III
Because they (the collectivists) don't believe us.
Because they think we're petty vandals (Window War) at best, or racist Neanderthals at worst.
Because I recognize that if I showed up to a congressman's office with a bucket of tar and a couple of pillows the cops would shoot me on sight.
Because they just keep squeezing...
OH, VERY WELL SAID!
Mike,
How about adding "attended an RTC rally?"
Some people...
Mike, that's an EXCELLENT point! Build a still, brew some 'shine, build a garage or addition without "permission", don't pay taxes (it's good enough for Bernanke!), saw off that shotgun if you want to, plant whatever you like, eat whatever you like, do whatever you like with your own property... That's called Freedom! Something that's been woefully missing for a long, long time.
There are no Obammy propaganda signs near me, or I would have defaced them already. Our CONgress cockroach moved to another city, or I would have smashed his windows already. I'm voting with my feet, moving from this city full of monkeys out to the country.
I'm keeping my lead ammo, but will be happy to return them one well aimed round at a time. Growing my own food regardless of what the DC cockroaches decree. Building what I want, in spite of "codes" and "ordinances", or "zoning" horse crap. And basically giving a big "Up Yours" to the establishment. I'm reclaiming my Liberty whether "they" like it or not, and I got the stones and the ammo to back my position.
When folks finally decide they've had enough, I'll be there with boonie hat on and rifle in hand. 'Til then, I'm doing what I want, and the PTB can go to hell...
ROFLMAO!
Thank you!
The Keyboard Commandos have no concept of what it is for which they bleet!
Mike, you just earned my respect, though I know that means little to you...and for that you earn more.
Sam
III
I realize that broken windows and vandalized signs are a way to build a movement....to get people who participate involved and make them feel like they are a part of something. It also serves to expand their mental boundaries and will help them if it does 'go to guns' b/c they'll be able to conceptualize insurgency strategies better.
I also realize that these misdemeanor crimes against property might intimidate the statists.....maybe. More likely, they'll laugh at the gesture while publicly decrying and denouncing those participating as "domestic terrorists"! The time for warnings has long since passed. They aren't turning this ship around.
My reason for not participating?
Why tip your hand, risk your job and public ridicule, risk a criminal record, for so petty an offense? Let's face it, everyone who visits this blog is likely being tracked. We're already on a list somewhere...for multiple things. Why GIVE them a reason to arrest you? Right now, we can come to blogs and enjoy some semblance of freedom of speech, but that speech is being monitored....don't think that it's not.
When the SHTF, it's going to be a lot better to have kept a low profile than to have possibly already been targeted as a domestic terrorist for something as inane as vandalism. Maybe Mike's looking for martyrs??
The reason I said that we'd just bitch about the possible EPA lead ammunition ban if it passes is exactly what Mike is asking here. Look how few participated in the window war. Either everyone is like me and keeping a low profile just waiting for the shit to pop off in order to act, or we're all full of crap.
I'm sure I'll get a lot of flack for this post....let the games begin.
Why wasn't what I wrote published on the "Another one from the Casus Belli Department...." article? But yet you can put the war criers post's up? That is horse sh*t. I tried to make an argument to call out the very people you are calling out in this article, yet you deleted what I wrote?
mike is right. gentlemen, if this were 1770, we would be busting windows, setting fire to certain buildings, and tar and feathering selected individuals. i firmly believe that at this time those actions are appropriate and should be initiated. however, despite all my attempts to garner support for brothers in arms, it just isn't there. understand, i have no intention of committing suicide. i also have no intention of sitting in a cell for the rest of my life for my individual action. sorry, it just seems stupid to me. i am however committed. if i know that there are others that will stand by me no matter the number, i have no problem risking my life or my personal freedom for the cause of liberty. i will not do it as a lone individual.
Mr. V makes a very good point. Remarks by WarriorClass for Mr. V to "settle down" are inappropriate. It's okay to get ANGRY at people who make idiotic, uncalled for remarks and suggestions.
Mr. V....you get riled up whenever the mood suits you. And the rest of you out there who want to sing "Kumbaya" rather than get your testicles in an uproar....well, you're just not realistic.
DAN
III
You try it for a while, Dan, and see how irritated you get at some of the excrement that gets sent your way. The stuff that gets published here is a fraction of what I get in both comments and email. It's my blog. I do not claim to be infallible. However, if you don't care for my opinions, you're welcome to go find another blog.
Vanderboegh
I been in shooting war. I'll take breaking windows anyday.
And re-reading I apologize for my atrocious spelling and typing.
Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
Winson Churchill
When it is time, you will not have to ask if it is time.
So... those of us who are exasperated with the unending parade of Intolerable Acts, offenses against Liberty and common sense, outright Treason and obvious casus belli are...
"mokes"?
Many of us are simply asking, "When is enough enough?" Or, to put it another way, just exactly what does the enemy have to do to us before we are at "Liberty" to do it to them, even though they have already earned their just deserts many, many times over?
I have yet to read even an approximation of that threshold, other than vague references to any of several apocalyptic scenarios.
I suppose that, whatever we do and whenever we do it, now or later, it will amount to an apocalypse, but I would bet that sooner is better than later in terms of the damage and the prognosis for a favorable outcome.
As Anonymous @ 5:20 said:
Either everyone is like me and keeping a low profile just waiting for the shit to pop off in order to act, or we're all full of crap.
The shit will likely have popped off and run down hill to meet us by the time we wake the hell up and decide , "It's time!"
So, Mike, or anyone else....
What are we waiting for? How many martyrs are necessary? How bad does it have to be? How much misery and suffering will the whole damned country have to bear? How far gone down the memory hole does the very concept of Liberty have to fall?
Just askin'......
Jon
III
If you WANT to start shooting you are fool of the first order!
Last resort, and I mean last resort.
War and battle is HELL on earth. Its something I hope never comes around. I want to restore this country in any peaceful way that we can think of.
Bears repeating here, since many of the comments there seem to be the genesis of Mike's ire:
Justin said... (in Comments to the "Love" post)
Nice post. Well written.
I think that this dream of the reluctant patriot fighting tyranny after he is “forced” into it is false, however. The OPFOR in this scenario is too smart to fire the first shot. I am not saying that the citizens should start anything, I am merely saying that they (meaning OPFOR) will not. They will boil us in a pot, one “reasonable” step at a time. Each step may push FREEFOR right up to the line of resistance (1984-ish GPS-tracking, police state actions, banning 90% of all ammo, individual mandates via health care “reform”, on and on…), but never past that line. In this way the ability and will of the people to resist is lessened, as what is seen as “the way things are” shifts inexorably left and towards out-and-out statism.
The state will NEVER fire the first shot. They don’t have to. They will push and push, taking more and more, regardless of constitutionality or fairness or ethics. OPFOR does not care.
I would caution you to not use the term “cassus belli” if you don’t really mean it. After having read this post, can you TRULY tell me that you believe police GPS tracking of citizens and lead ammo bans are both cassus belli, as you have said recently? Really? There is conflicting information here, in my opinion.
Can you clarify, Mike? What is a true cassus belli in your opinion? What constitutes “having no choice”? You advocate not one more step back, not one inch. Do you mean it though?
I would really like some clarification on what you believe “We are not backing up another inch” (as posted on the top of your blog) means. Since I have followed your blog, we’ve backed up several inches, if not more. I am reminded of the article I think WRSA posted that talked about a people being oppressed in every way possible by FedGov except that they were given an illusion of freedom by being allowed to keep their guns. Freedom is about more than guns; oppression is about more than gun control.
So tell me, what does “not another inch” mean to you? Mike? Everyone? What does cassus belli mean to you? Mike? Everyone? I would like specifics, because as an earlier poster stated, we’re going to take this crap and just bitch about it on the internet. I disagreed at first, now I wholeheartedly agree.
Can someone clarify?
Justin
August 27, 2010 9:29 AM
Having quoted/reposted all that let me add that I completely agree with Mike about the necessity of Love being at the center of our motivation. Love is generative, creative, nurturing. Without Love all our motives are suspect and little good can come from our efforts.
But it is Love of God, Liberty, Family and Country which requires us to act against the Oppressor.
The question is, "When?"
Because I ask that most important of questions, anyone who doubts my Love of Country and Family, intelligence, or commitment to the cause of Liberty is invited to meet me on the Field of Honor.
Jon
III
It does no good to get in cat fight here. I sense some serious stress in these parts. That's why I said to settle down. No insult intended on my part at all. I don't have the way with words that Mike has. Don't claim to. Like Mike said, this is his blog. We are here because we like what he has to say and respect him. If he don't like my questions, he don't have to post them at all. I just like to see what he has to say.
I reckon my questions are valid, even if not here.
I respect you, Mike. That's why I read your blog.
WarriorClass
III
It definitely IS your blog, Mr. Vanderboegh, and I fully respect your right to run it as you choose. That is one thing about true Freedom. It applies to Everyone. Not just the select few. And while I disagree with some of your positions, I truly appreciate the work you do to run this site and provide a perspective that's at least SLIGHTLY different than that which is continually spewed by ABCNNBCBS and their ilk. Including Fox. Thank you!
Mr. Vanderboegh,
I repspect you very much. You are a modern day Founding Father. But I must disagree with you on this. I also do not appreciate being told to "shut the hell up" because I won't go out and do the things you asked for.
What is there to gain by committing these petty acts of vandalism? Will it change the collectivist's minds? Will they see the error of their ways and stop what they are doing? Will it open the eyes of the public and cause them to join our side? Will it put us in a better position when it does go to guns? Will it keep us from having to go to guns?
The answer to those questions is a big NO! It is going to come to guns. The collectivist is entrenched in his ideology and determination. The public is entrenched in their blindness, hell for the most part they want the opposite of what we want! I can see no tactical advantage gained by this when it does come to guns. There is little benefit to these actions.
The time for political actions such as this was twenty years ago. It is too late in the game now. It is going to come to a shooting war no matter what we do. We need to start acting like it and only conduct operations that will yield big results that will benefit our end goal. The actions you called for do not do that in my opinion.
So I am not going to risk being arrested among other penalties and problems to make a political statement that is going to fall on deaf ears. I am not going to highlight my area or myself as well. I want to be around for game day. I'm not going to endanger my ability to participate in the inevitable conflict that is coming.
If there was a real benifit to this I would be all for it. But I don't see it. This isn't to say that I do not believe political action is not important. I am just saying that it is pointless at this point without being married up with actual resistance. One cannot work without the other because we are too far gone. But the shooting war must start.
Thomas Paine said... " If there must be trouble let it be in my day so that my child may know peace.".
The time to fix this is now. If we wait much longer we will be in no position to do anything about it. We can't afford to let this continue another ten years. The cost of doing so will be counted in the number of lives lost and the almost assured failure of our efforts.
Are we going to wait until they actually try and enforce all this garbage they has passed recently? Would the actions you have called for make them take it back and restore our constitutional republic? NO! They are going to continue moving forward in passing these "laws" and positioning the means for enforcing them. That means bringing force upon those that do not comply. So we should focus on bringing force to those that would make us comply.
I am not saying ruck up and leave momma and the babies tomorrow. What I am saying is that war is inevitable and these actions you have requested do not support or benefit the shooting war.
Now if your intent was to aggravate them to bring on the shooting war, then I would say you are a genius and I like your style.
I am sorry for writing a small book here. But, since you posted this I have typed many small books and debated back and forth with myself on what I wanted to say. This is the book I decided to go with. Everything I have just written has been done so with respect. I do not wish for any of this to be read as an attack on you, just a disagreement.
EMWONAY
Have you broken any windows yet?
Vandalized any ARRA signs?--MVB
Recently, while doing a late-night reconnoiter in a road construction zone, I notice that the object of my interest has disappeared without a trace. "Wow! That was some clean job," I say to no one in particular. I wonder if a grinder was used to topple it.
Further investigation reveals the sign, which shows no evident damage, had been uprooted and placed on its side in a wooded area a short distance from the construction site. Maybe the construction workers were offended by the propaganda or the [state redacted] Department of Transportation is alert to potential vandalism and wants to protect its property.
Does it do any good to deface an object that no one will see? Maybe I'll go look for a more conspicuous sign.
MALTHUS
The state will NEVER fire the first shot. They don’t have to. They will push and push, taking more and more, regardless of constitutionality or fairness or ethics. OPFOR does not care.--Justin
If we can believe the eyewitness account of militiaman Sylvanus Wood of Woburn, Massachussetts, Captain Parker's Lexington militia fled when fired on by British troops.
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/lexington.htm
Understandably, it takes a lot of provocation to initiate a shooting war against your own countrymen. That's why political action is much preferable to bloodletting. Mistakes in jugement are easier to forgive and forget.
Now go write your Congress critter or whack a sign, you rambunctious young pup.
MALTHUS
Friend of mine is off at some lib-filled conference this week end. He called me and said he's having lots of fun posting "WE ARE EVERYWHERE" stickers all over the place, heh.
Wow.
If I accept your point of view, can you answer a question?
What does not backing up another inch mean? What does standing one's ground look like?
Can someone answer that? I am asking a serious question here, looking for answers, not sarcasm and name calling.
As a "rambunctious young pup", I'm looking for guidance from those who are obviously in control and understand what everything that is going on. After all, the generation before me did -so well- at standing up to government infringements.
You're right though, Mike, perhaps another blog, or none at all, is the correct course for me.
Maybe this is the answer, instead of trying to engage in dialogue:
http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2007/05/next-steps-grey-man.html
But first, before I go, can someone address my questions?
Signed,
A Moke
Justin
No worries on the firing line.
Mike won't be there....
As a "rambunctious young pup", I'm looking for guidance from those who are obviously in control and understand what everything that is going on. After all, the generation before me did -so well- at standing up to government infringements.--Justin
I've been in this "soft war" for 25 years. Back when I first started, no one took me seriously when I argued that the welfare/warfare state would bankrupt the national treasury, destroying the dollar and our precious liberties in the process.
These days, my argument is often met with nodded assent. The dawn of realization has begun.
We are on the cusp of a momentous turning that will reveal whether we are to rekindle liberty's flame or be swallowed up in a police-state repression.
MALTHUS
Are you ready to leave your loved ones? Live off the "land" or those that support the cause but are physically unable to fight?
Think logistically! What do you/we/us have setup to sustain or even mobilize.
Throw a brick, send that e-mail/fax/letter. Organize in secret. Be prepared to lead your self, then others. Control a county, then 2, 4 6 and then the state. Then...
I agree we need to move beyond the key board BUT you are not being realistic. We need a hero.
Ed
III
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