The ORIGINAL gathering place for a merry band of Three Percenters. (As denounced by Bill Clinton on CNN!)
Friday, April 18, 2014
Sheriff Mack's assertion about pre-planning of the cynical use of women and kids at the Bundy confrontation is flat wrong.
There are those who say that, like Ronald Reagan's dictum about members of the GOP, "thou shalt speak no evil about leaders in the patriot movement." I am not one of them, especially when what they do or say is in direct contravention of the truth and the principles that we are supposed to be fighting for.
I first heard about this video on the way out to Nevada.
“We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front,” he said. “If they are going to start shooting, it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.”
U.S. Sen. Harry Reid on Thursday called supporters of Bunkerville rancher Cliven Bundy “domestic terrorists” because they defended him against a Bureau of Land Management cattle roundup with guns and put their children in harm’s way. . . According to Reid, some protesters said they had “children and women lined up because if anyone got hurt we wanted to make sure they got hurt first, because we want the federal government hurting women and children. … What if others tried the same thing?”
“It was a tactical ploy that I was trying to get them to use.” says Mack. Mack goes on to clarify that the ploy was not adopted and that he was not on the scene during the standoff. He continued by saying that he would risk his own life as well in taking a stand.
“I would have been next. I would have been the next one to be killed. I’m not afraid to die here, I’m willing to die here. But the best ploy would have been to have had women in front because one, I don’t think they would have shot them. Two, if they had it would have been the best thing to show the rest of the world that these ruthless cowards will do anything they are told. If they are told to shoot they will shoot. Just like when they shot Vicki Weaver when they blew her head off in front of her little girl while she was holding a baby.” says Mack.
Even this "modified, limited hangout" wasn't true. I have spoken with folks who were in that meeting and they flatly deny that anything of the kind happened. One said "we were all blindsided by that when we saw the video later." Another said, "It didn't happen that I heard." Another speculated that the "strategizing" about using women and children as human shields must have occurred inside Mack's own head, saying, "I can tell you that I never heard Mack make such a proposal . . . and if he had it would have been shot down."
The cynical use of women and kids as shields is collectivist's tool of long-standing. For Mack to attribute it to people who were trying to plan for the preservation of innocent life if the BLM thugs used deadly violence is an insult. Why he did what he did and said what he said is mystifying to other participants, although they hesitate to publicly criticize him. The one thing that can be concluded is that he gave the enemies of liberty a big propaganda stick with which to beat the rest of us with. He ought to come clean about what and why he did what did and said what he said. My own conclusion is that he owes the people in that room a big apology.
20 comments:
Anonymous
said...
NRA sponsored events I've been to put the women up front.
To me, this is just like, it's the same mistake as, telling folks what to wear. Both are endeavoring to fabricate the situation instead of just showing the actuality based truth.
Men and women should be as intermingled as their dress is diverse.
When are folks gonna finally realize that truth is on our side, the side of Liberty, and all we have to do is STICK TO IT.........
They want us dead. Like the Jews in Nazi Germany we are damned if we do and damed if we don't. Women and children up front? Most real men would rather be dead than to have to bear the loss of a child. I am sure there is no greater horror than putting your own child into a grave. I thought these aholes were all about women's rights? If it was all men that showed up, they would pain us as sexist. If not kids were there, we would be painted as intending to incite war since it is presumed you would behave better when kids are present. Propaganda can be spun to demonize any action in any way. The Jews were extremely civilized and largely did what they were told without near the fuss that we are putting up and look what ultimately happened to them. As I say, we are damned if we do and damned if we dont. If that is the case we might as well continue to protest, continue to point out the lies of this illigitamate government and prepare for eventual attack. These aholes have written how they cant wait until we are all starving in concentration camps and they can have at our women. The truly wicked and disgusting evil are licking their lips at the future oppression they can wrought.
I don't know of any pre planning, but I can verify that Sheriff Mack was standing about three "rows" back behind and to the side of the cowboys and cowgirls on horseback as we waited for the gates to open in the wash. He was talking with Stewart Rhodes, who can easily verify this. There were women on foot hang horseback upfront, in the middle and bringing up the rear. There were a dozen or so kids down in the wash, too. Many women had sidearms with them. I cannot read minds, but I don't think there was any "plan" except to move forward with the folks on horseback and open those gates.
Not sure what all the fuss is about . If women are already fighting on the front lines why not fight locally ? The Israelis draft men and women together . And they fight side by side . Is this the same Feral ( sic) Government that bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki full of only women and children and not one military target.
When I saw the video, I was dumbfounded and disgusted. Mack is an idiot, and is NOT to be trusted, going by his comments.
On another somewhat off - topic tangent, Stewart Rhodes should keep his yap shut about the dress - code or what weapons should be carried. Those that showed up in Bunkerville to support Bundy knew full - well the risks of being there. It is NOT up to Oath Keepers to specify what means of protection are deemed acceptable. If a person decides open carry on an AR-15 is necessary for self protection (esp. against snipers and SWAT teams), OK should keep quiet. If another carries a .40 and wears a camp plate carrier with class III plates, so be it.
If people are willing to put their asses on the line for YOURS, don't quibble about how they look. Be grateful they're doing it at all.
Obama his DoD team advocate for women in military combat roles. So, what's the big deal if militia women also lay stake to positions in the front lines?
The militia movement will always be hated, always demonized. Had there been all men there, they would have been demonized for being a sexist organization. Had children not been there, not very family oriented, with children there, they apparently wanted to sacrifice children (which only the elites take pleasure in doing btw). If women get behind the men the femonists get really angry, if the women are in front of the men the men are sacrificing their women, etc., etc., etc. need I go on. They can find anyway to demonize anything. They will more than likely stage attacks by the patriot movement now in order to further demonize.
The whole episode seems a little contrived. Not that there weren't real concerned people who showed up but from those of us watching it unfold on the net it just didn't look as "big" as it was made out to be. It almost gave the impression it was nothing more than a controlled drill. Media has stated, through circular reference, there was a thousand people who showed up. Implying many of them were militia. Yet not one video or photo has produced more than 100-200 people. EVERY media piece sites at most three names (over and over again) of individuals on-site speaking for the militia. Militia snipers (plural) were also reported. Yet the same photo of one guy on the bridge with a rifle is all that is shown. Heck, there were over a dozen people photographing this one guy. NO actual visual medium (by either mainstream or alternative) have been produced to to prove the claims either side has espoused. Sheriff Mack's statement just adds more confusion to the saga. Reminds me of the time Alex Jones ranted like a crazy person on Piers Morgans anti-gun show. It's as if these guys are intentionally trying to paint the whole movement with one long "psycho" brush. And these are the leaders of the liberty / patriot movement. Anyone following these people are eventually going to get hurt.
Its simple, he needs to be demanded to come forward with the truth right here right now or we demonize him as a traitor and he is not welcome at any other events. Protesters can get signs that say traitor, turncoat, fed plant, etc. This tactic can be effective when fed plants show up at protest events.
What TRex said. If a woman or child ends up shot by a fed in the back or in the head in the middle of the night or face to face in broad daylight with 100 video cameras running in the next 20 years that video will be played over and over and it will be the victim's fault.
Stop with this Chicken Shit pussy bull shit. Were they women and children there at gunpoint or were they armed and ready and willing.
We will die by the Millions if Ayers and his commie friends win.
SO Pussy boy Mike knock it off get real and join us , or stop opposing logic,
They do the same remember the Oklahoma building . Day Care.
Mrs. Weaver.
Get used to is because it is coming and if you cannot handle join the other side. Remember Freedom is Priceless and it costs a lot to maintain. If they were willing accept their fate and move on.
Used, not used, maybe not even spoken during planning but it was spoken in front of a camera and that's powerful medicine. We may know the difference but the people don't and we have to have them on our side.
All the more reason that there should be one guy that's fairly sharp on his feet designated early on to interface with the media. The PAO is just as critical a function as the rifleman in this kind of incident.
Would like to clarify Capitalist Eric, that about Oath Keepers and Stewart Rhodes position on weapons and attire. I am the Western States Operations Officer for Oath Keepers and I tell you this, he was only speaking to those members in Oath Keepers. Some may not agree with Stewart's requests, and that is what it is, a request to those Oath Keeper members, like Sheriff Mack's statement, that too was misconstrued. Mike...For OUR Republic
"What he said on camera is going to haunt the militia movement for years."
Utter rot. Sheesh, guys, suck it up. There was never a revolution, never a battle, never even an interview in which mistakes are not made. IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER. Roll with the punches.
Anonymous at 12:26 PM has it right. No matter what our guys said or did, the Ministry of Propaganda would find ways to twist it into something ugly. The thing is to not care. Most people observing the event, the ones who matter anyway, aren't so easily misled. Or have you forgotten how little credibility the government has lately?
That's not to say we shouldn't watch our conduct; but let's not have a hernia over it.
First of all, I realize that I wasn't there and am acting on hearsay here, but I will say that this is weak position at best. It seems to me that anyone who would put women and children at the front of the line to bear the result of a potentially explosive situation is an idiot. I would question this man's motives for wanting this done, for as a strategic maneuver, it makes no sense. We fight for an ideal that is true and righteous, and personally, the thought of my own mortality as a result is something I've come to terms with and accept as a possibility. However, are we supposed to agree with the idea of a person wanting or willing to manipulate a situation by maneuvering the prospective mortality of others simply to try to make the opposition look bad? Bullshit. The opposition IS bad. Our side needs to be righteous... always. I realize there is a propaganda war in play here, but trying to win it by saying or doing things of this nature will not win that war. I would go further by saying that if this is the type of thing that Mr. Mack is going to bring to the table, there is no further need of his services. Go away.
"The militia movement will always be hated, always demonized."
By those who fear them, good. You can be sure lots of silent Americans are saying to themselves, "Damn Honey, I don't know what this about, but I'm glad we got those armed extremists around here."
They may not know it likely won't matter until they have something to offer themselves, but still it's the right idea and something other than hate.
In this case it may have been a tactically good decision to put non threatening people up front (of their own volition) as it would have been further insurance from cops shooting into the crowd.
20 comments:
NRA sponsored events I've been to put the women up front.
To me, this is just like, it's the same mistake as, telling folks what to wear. Both are endeavoring to fabricate the situation instead of just showing the actuality based truth.
Men and women should be as intermingled as their dress is diverse.
When are folks gonna finally realize that truth is on our side, the side of Liberty, and all we have to do is STICK TO IT.........
They want us dead. Like the Jews in Nazi Germany we are damned if we do and damed if we don't. Women and children up front? Most real men would rather be dead than to have to bear the loss of a child. I am sure there is no greater horror than putting your own child into a grave. I thought these aholes were all about women's rights? If it was all men that showed up, they would pain us as sexist. If not kids were there, we would be painted as intending to incite war since it is presumed you would behave better when kids are present. Propaganda can be spun to demonize any action in any way. The Jews were extremely civilized and largely did what they were told without near the fuss that we are putting up and look what ultimately happened to them. As I say, we are damned if we do and damned if we dont. If that is the case we might as well continue to protest, continue to point out the lies of this illigitamate government and prepare for eventual attack. These aholes have written how they cant wait until we are all starving in concentration camps and they can have at our women. The truly wicked and disgusting evil are licking their lips at the future oppression they can wrought.
I don't know of any pre planning, but I can verify that Sheriff Mack was standing about three "rows" back behind and to the side of the cowboys and cowgirls on horseback as we waited for the gates to open in the wash. He was talking with Stewart Rhodes, who can easily verify this. There were women on foot hang horseback upfront, in the middle and bringing up the rear. There were a dozen or so kids down in the wash, too. Many women had sidearms with them. I cannot read minds, but I don't think there was any "plan" except to move forward with the folks on horseback and open those gates.
What he said on camera is going to haunt the militia movement for years. He needs to never be in a position again, where he can do such harm.
Not sure what all the fuss is about . If women are already fighting on the front lines why not fight locally ?
The Israelis draft men and women together . And they fight side by side .
Is this the same Feral ( sic) Government that bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki full of only women and children and not one military target.
When I saw the video, I was dumbfounded and disgusted. Mack is an idiot, and is NOT to be trusted, going by his comments.
On another somewhat off - topic tangent, Stewart Rhodes should keep his yap shut about the dress - code or what weapons should be carried. Those that showed up in Bunkerville to support Bundy knew full - well the risks of being there. It is NOT up to Oath Keepers to specify what means of protection are deemed acceptable. If a person decides open carry on an AR-15 is necessary for self protection (esp. against snipers and SWAT teams), OK should keep quiet. If another carries a .40 and wears a camp plate carrier with class III plates, so be it.
If people are willing to put their asses on the line for YOURS, don't quibble about how they look. Be grateful they're doing it at all.
Obama his DoD team advocate for women in military combat roles. So, what's the big deal if militia women also lay stake to positions in the front lines?
The militia movement will always be hated, always demonized. Had there been all men there, they would have been demonized for being a sexist organization. Had children not been there, not very family oriented, with children there, they apparently wanted to sacrifice children (which only the elites take pleasure in doing btw). If women get behind the men the femonists get really angry, if the women are in front of the men the men are sacrificing their women, etc., etc., etc. need I go on. They can find anyway to demonize anything. They will more than likely stage attacks by the patriot movement now in order to further demonize.
The whole episode seems a little contrived. Not that there weren't real concerned people who showed up but from those of us watching it unfold on the net it just didn't look as "big" as it was made out to be. It almost gave the impression it was nothing more than a controlled drill. Media has stated, through circular reference, there was a thousand people who showed up. Implying many of them were militia. Yet not one video or photo has produced more than 100-200 people. EVERY media piece sites at most three names (over and over again) of individuals on-site speaking for the militia. Militia snipers (plural) were also reported. Yet the same photo of one guy on the bridge with a rifle is all that is shown. Heck, there were over a dozen people photographing this one guy. NO actual visual medium (by either mainstream or alternative) have been produced to to prove the claims either side has espoused. Sheriff Mack's statement just adds more confusion to the saga. Reminds me of the time Alex Jones ranted like a crazy person on Piers Morgans anti-gun show. It's as if these guys are intentionally trying to paint the whole movement with one long "psycho" brush. And these are the leaders of the liberty / patriot movement. Anyone following these people are eventually going to get hurt.
Its simple, he needs to be demanded to come forward with the truth right here right now or we demonize him as a traitor and he is not welcome at any other events. Protesters can get signs that say traitor, turncoat, fed plant, etc. This tactic can be effective when fed plants show up at protest events.
What TRex said.
If a woman or child ends up shot by a fed in the back or in the head in the middle of the night or face to face in broad daylight with 100 video cameras running in the next 20 years that video will be played over and over and it will be the victim's fault.
Ministry of Propaganda, what can you expect? It's all a big, deadly game.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Stop with this Chicken Shit pussy bull shit.
Were they women and children there at gunpoint or were they armed and ready and willing.
We will die by the Millions if Ayers and his commie friends win.
SO Pussy boy Mike knock it off get real and join us , or stop opposing logic,
They do the same remember the Oklahoma building . Day Care.
Mrs. Weaver.
Get used to is because it is coming and if you cannot handle join the other side.
Remember Freedom is Priceless and it costs a lot to maintain.
If they were willing accept their fate and move on.
Mike if you are so important keep your yap shut but no you have to blab this bs on your blog.
Pathetic.
If you have nothing nice to say keep it to your self, but some say you are a quisling traitor.
I have no idea , but keep it shut dude.
Not needed.
Used, not used, maybe not even spoken during planning but it was spoken in front of a camera and that's powerful medicine. We may know the difference but the people don't and we have to have them on our side.
All the more reason that there should be one guy that's fairly sharp on his feet designated early on to interface with the media. The PAO is just as critical a function as the rifleman in this kind of incident.
Would like to clarify Capitalist Eric, that about Oath Keepers and Stewart Rhodes position on weapons and attire. I am the Western States Operations Officer for Oath Keepers and I tell you this, he was only speaking to those members in Oath Keepers. Some may not agree with Stewart's requests, and that is what it is, a request to those Oath Keeper members, like Sheriff Mack's statement, that too was misconstrued. Mike...For OUR Republic
"What he said on camera is going to haunt the militia movement for years."
Utter rot. Sheesh, guys, suck it up. There was never a revolution, never a battle, never even an interview in which mistakes are not made. IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER. Roll with the punches.
Anonymous at 12:26 PM has it right. No matter what our guys said or did, the Ministry of Propaganda would find ways to twist it into something ugly. The thing is to not care. Most people observing the event, the ones who matter anyway, aren't so easily misled. Or have you forgotten how little credibility the government has lately?
That's not to say we shouldn't watch our conduct; but let's not have a hernia over it.
First of all, I realize that I wasn't there and am acting on hearsay here, but I will say that this is weak position at best. It seems to me that anyone who would put women and children at the front of the line to bear the result of a potentially explosive situation is an idiot. I would question this man's motives for wanting this done, for as a strategic maneuver, it makes no sense. We fight for an ideal that is true and righteous, and personally, the thought of my own mortality as a result is something I've come to terms with and accept as a possibility. However, are we supposed to agree with the idea of a person wanting or willing to manipulate a situation by maneuvering the prospective mortality of others simply to try to make the opposition look bad? Bullshit. The opposition IS bad. Our side needs to be righteous... always. I realize there is a propaganda war in play here, but trying to win it by saying or doing things of this nature will not win that war. I would go further by saying that if this is the type of thing that Mr. Mack is going to bring to the table, there is no further need of his services. Go away.
It just looks politically contrived to me.
~S
"The militia movement will always be hated, always demonized."
By those who fear them, good. You can be sure lots of silent Americans are saying to themselves, "Damn Honey, I don't know what this about, but I'm glad we got those armed extremists around here."
They may not know it likely won't matter until they have something to offer themselves, but still it's the right idea and something other than hate.
In this case it may have been a tactically good decision to put non threatening people up front (of their own volition) as it would have been further insurance from cops shooting into the crowd.
War gaming and tactics are not a bad thing...
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