Later, putting the transcript aside, the prosecutor said: "The theme is the brotherhood is the enemy - all law enforcement."
The "BROTHERHOOD"? The "BROTHERHOOD?!?" It would seem that this is what this was all about, using the moronic Hutaree as useful idiots -- uniting all "law enforcement" and rallying them to the side of the Leviathan. And they can't even make their case at this early stage with a lower burden of proof?
Mike
III
Judge asks feds to show militia did more than talk
Apr 28, 8:35 PM (ET)
By ED WHITE
DETROIT (AP) - A federal judge challenged prosecutors Wednesday to show that nine members of a Michigan militia accused of plotting war against the government had done more than just talk and should remain locked up.
U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts heard nearly 10 hours of testimony and arguments over two days. She did not make a decision about whether the nine will remain in custody, saying only that a ruling would come soon.
The members of a southern Michigan group called Hutaree have been in custody for a month. An indictment accuses them of weapons violations and a rare crime: conspiring to commit sedition, or rebellion, against the government by first killing police officers.
Prosecutors say the public would be at risk if the nine are released. But defense lawyers claim the government has overreached with a criminal case based mostly on hateful speech.
An undercover agent infiltrated the group and secretly made recordings that have been played in court. While there is talk about killing police, it's not specific. In one conversation, there are many people talking over each other and laughing.
Roberts pressed that point more than once as Assistant U.S. Attorney Ronald Waterstreet argued in favor of keeping the nine in jail. The judge suggested she didn't hear or read in the transcripts any indication that violence was imminent.
"Mere presence where a crime may be planned is not a crime. ... How does this add up to seditious conspiracy?" Roberts said.
Waterstreet said the government is not required to show all its evidence at this early stage of the case. He referred to the words of militia leader David Stone, 44, of Clayton, Mich., who was recorded by the undercover agent while they drove to Kentucky earlier this year.
"It's now time to strike and take our nation back so that we may be free again from tyranny. Time is up," Waterstreet said, quoting a transcript.
Later, putting the transcript aside, the prosecutor said: "The theme is the brotherhood is the enemy - all law enforcement."
Defense lawyers urged the judge to look at each defendant individually. Although all are charged with conspiracy, they were not always together during critical meetings cited by the government.
"'What if' is not the standard. ... None of these words are an instruction to anyone to commit a crime," said Stone's attorney, William Swor, as held up a stack of transcripts.
Arthur Weiss, a lawyer for Thomas Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Ind., said disgust with the government as recorded by the undercover agent is similar to what's said daily by radio and TV talk-show hosts Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity.
"Millions of people" are talking about "taking our country back," Weiss said.
The judge also heard from relatives of some of the defendants who pledged to be responsible for them if they were released from jail.
15 comments:
So it is looking more and more like what we suspected: a set up by the feds to demonize the "right wing extremist groups" so that they could begin to divide the tea partiers. If it's true, then the feds are the criminals, not the hutaree, as stupid as they are.
Money quote:
"Millions of people" are talking about "taking our country back," Weiss said.
Prayers said for you, Mike.
III n TN
Set up a straw man and knock him down. But they play with men's lives.
To Mr. Prosecutor, it is a fun game. It won't be so fun when he sits in the seat of judgment.
Two terms we locals used to use back in the drug war:
1) Famous But Incompetent
2) F**king Blithering Idiots
Bonus term for DEA:
Drunk Every Afternoon
S E C = Sexual Enforcement Commission
"...the brotherhood is the enemy..."?
OK, I know you can't shout "fire!" in a crowded theater unless the theater really IS on fire, but doesn't that make the rule "you have to tell the truth"?
So, if some Hutaree says "the brotherhood is the enemy", how is that cause for a criminal charge?
Set-up, straw man, example, and eventually a legal precedent for simply thinking 'bad' things as interpreted by the PTB.
In other words, keep the subjects from seeking redress and prosecute there a##. Sounds like Lenin or Stalinist tactics.
Here we go folks!
Bob K.
Betcha the one making most of the "kill cops" comments was the informant. He probably only shut his trap while he was recording.
Anonymous APR.30 2010 @03:44
Please note the Feds have been the Criminals since Ruby Ridge and Branch Davidian and they have acted with Federal Impunity.
In the words of one of the postings ¨All Politics in this Country now are Just Dress Rehearsal for Civil War¨.
B.B.2009
We know that that´s why we are hear ¨We Are Everywere¨.
Dennis
III
Texas
Just in case ya´ll forgot F.B.I.means Fucking Bumbling Idiots Now lets put that to memory
I do believe I said this looked like the faked runup to the murders at Waco and Ruby Ridge early on.
Would this mean that all those demonstrations where people chanted death to Bush and other threats that they were guilty of conspiring to kill the president?? Where is the FBI? I am not trying to side with the hutaree's who don't seem to be either smart or totally innocent. What I am concerned with is the selective prosecution and the way this ties in neatly with the media assault on right wing organizations.
Apologize for staying anonymous but have to... Anyway, these guys are going to have their hands full if they continue this garbage. How can what someone says, without any actual plans being mentioned, be a conspiracy,or as they put it here, sedition. They haven't seen sedition yet. All they have seen is a bunch of very pissed off voters.
For what it's worth it is very difficult to truely be "anonymous on the internet. Your comments are directly tied to your computer and this can be traced if anyone wanted to spend the time and money to do so. Every cell phone text message you send is kept in an archive somewhere forever. Every phone number you call is kept forever. The moment you turn on a cell phone your exact location can be traced. 95% of all U.S. phone conversations and most internet transactions (this number is more nebulous then phone) are available to the NSA. About 60% of all non-U.S. communications of all types are available to the NSA (and this number is going up as we speak). 100% of everything transmitted via satellite is monitored. The good news is very little is actually looked at by humans and most of what is looked at is rejected as not worthy of further investigation.
Not much of a surprise.
The Gov usually does more work on a frame up. Or is it just easier to dissect a lie with the more developed internet than it used to be?
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