"Are YOU politically reliable? Maybe we should add you to our list."Read this from an Ohio state cop and tell me a. that all cops are our enemies, and b. that we don't need a wider projection of Oath Keepers. Many of us have had problems with the "non-political" bent of the Arfcom management. Yet, here's a guy who not only posted a thought-provoking piece, but got answers in return directing him first to Sipsey Street and then to Oath Keepers. Keep up the good work guys. We have lots of friends out there. Keep reaching out.
Mike
III
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=628074&page=1
Posted: 9/25/2009 11:04:47 PM
This is my first post. I have been lurking, reading and learning for about 2 years. I hope there are many others like me. Thank you all for the wit and wisdom you have imparted. You are a great asset to this Nation. Now onto my post...
So here's what got me thinking. I'm in State law enforcement in Ohio. I was at one of our annual 2 day training events. We were in a classroom session on Domestic terrorism. The speaker was our agencies liaison with the FBI on the Joint Terrorism Task Force that was set up after 9/11. They broke it into two categories; home grown terrorists influenced by Al Qaeda and the like; and everybody else. So in the first category was some of the post 9/11 arrestees from Ohio like Christopher Paul and Imam Fawaz Damra, and then the second group included all white supremest groups, militia groups, people with anti-government sentiment, and anyone else who was overly religious. This part was nothing new to me, they have gone over this a few years prior. Then came the trouble...The instructor started talking about indicators which could be used to warn us of these peoples presence. Most made sense, like if the guy has a swastika on his forehead. Some others covered more discreet body markings. I didn't have any problem with this, but then he shows us a slide of some bumper stickers. One says, "The UN is not our friend!" and the second says, "Exercise your rights, or you'll lose them." He goes on to say that these are good indicators that the person in this car is anti-government and probably violent.
Now, I'm not one to let this slip by unchallenged. So I raise my hand and say, " Are you saying that these are possible indicators or probable indicators. He says, "probable." I take issue with this, I say." "First, if you know anything about the UN, they aren't our friend. They also aren't our government, so I hardly see how that would make this person anti-government. And the second statement seems fairly innocuous. I would think that both the extreme left and the extreme right would say that a right not exercised is easily lost. So I would agree with both of those statements and I hardly think that makes me a threat." He looks right at me and says half jokingly, "maybe we should add you to our list." There was a bit of an awkward silence as we stared at each other. Then he just moved on. Later he showed more stickers that said things like, "I believe in the Bible", and abortion is wrong" At one point he showed a picture of some sort of Aryan Nation marking and said to me, "do you have one of these?" I was fuming.
At a later break I consulted some of the other guys, of which there were about 50. Some said they thought the guy was way out of line and some others said they thought I should have just let it go. Everyone seemed to agree he was serious. I later made the point to him that by his measure our forefathers would be suspect. I guess at that point it struck me. This guy draws no distinction between the person who blows himself up for Allah, and the guy who doesn't like big government. Since he was trained by the Feds, I must assume they feel the same.
It seems like most of the discussion and preparation here revolves around some degree or another of SHTF. I feel like that is well covered and thought out. I don't want to debate about the likeliness of one scenario or another, instead I would relish your thoughts on the scenario that concerns me the most, and which I think is the more difficult one to prepare for. You are suddenly that domestic terrorist, not because you have committed terrorist acts, but because of what you believe. They are coming for you. Now survive.
You can imagine what's stacked against you. You have to survive long enough to turn public sentiment in your favor. Not unlike our forefathers and ultimately you must save your country.
Here is what I think you have going for you. The Feds simply don't have enough resources, but could remedy that with foreign help. They rely heavily on local law enforcement which at least in my area will give them little support. State law enforcement is about half and half IMO.
Sorry for such a meaty first post. I greatly respect your opinions.
Dingeman
"Aye, lads, and have ye ever heard of the G-Man Ned Broy? The movie had it wrong, ye know. The lovely man outlived me. There. That's him, the bugger on the left."
Ned Broy, one of Michael Collins 'G' men in the 'Castle', photographed drawing a ticket for the Irish Hospitals Trust sweepstake, circa 1940's.
10 comments:
Oh the sad irony of someone with the moniker ThomasJefferson stepping in and warning everyone against gubmint bashing or encouraging revolution.
This is encouraging... at least the part where the Ohio State Officer is capable of independent thought and where his loyalties lie (upholding his oath and serving the people).
Discouraging that the trainer is such a lackey who has really drank deeply from the Kool-Aid.
I would just remind everyone to maintain their own "list".
I read the three pages of posts on ar.15, and by the end I was actually somewhat encouraged.
We haven't had a real tea party yet. Wait until Americans are going hungry and grain barges are shipping overseas, THEN you'll see a "tea party". You'll be able to spot the smoke for at least 100 miles.
Cheers.
Hearing that 50% of the States speed cops are on the side of the oathkeepers IS encouraging.
This post is, of course, encouraging; however, as an old biker (not even a patch holder), I have seen the BS that one young overzealous deputy can pull.
My concern is that if these young, inexperienced sorts come up to a threeper, each ones' lives will be changed forever.
I try to respect all law enforcement but, all we want is to be left alone. It ain't likely to happen under the circumstances which we now find ourselves.
"maintain their own list" indeed.
Renegade
III
I was stopped just inside the Vermont state line at a rest area for inspection. I drove a big rig at the time.
The state trooper who was inspecting my rig and paperwork was a really pleasant man who did his job courteously and professionally, but in the course of our thirty or so minutes together I noticed that the 7 or 8 other troopers there treated him with either contempt or indifference.
I finally asked him, "Why do they seem to have such a hard on for you?"
He said it went back to a training session they had had recently (circa 2000). He said they had all been sent to a training session that taught methods to violate the fourth amendment rights of citizens without committing anything verifiable to get cases thrown out of court.
At the end of the session they were required to sign a statement that they had taken the course, understood the material and would incorporate its use in their interactions with "civilians".
He told them he would sign that he had taken the course and that he understood the material, but that he could not sign that he would use it. When pressed for an explanation, he replied that he had taken an oath to defend and protect the constitutions of the United States and Vermont, both of which prohibited the use of the tactics taught in the course.
In the end, he was called before the head of the State Police (Patrol?) and they went round and round, but he didn't back off his position.
He told me he had drawn every shit detail they had and that not one of his fellow troopers would speak to him except when forced to do so by duty.
Firstly, I respect this man and told him so, secondly, his experience leads me to believe that the poster's estimate of a 50/50 split between those who would honor their oaths and those who would not, is very generous and likely a fantasy.
M:
Thanks for posting this; there's a thread running in LinkedIn for us NRA instructors that began asking if we put NRA or 2A bumper stickers on our private vehicles. I said, 'No, I don't put any bumper stickers on my truck.' Part of my reason was sheer OPSEC (to use the survivalblog.com terminology); I don't want the bad guys to think I'm driving around a weapons cache! After reading this post, I now see there are other BGs I need to keep in mind!
Mike in Montana
Screw it ! I think I will find the best constitutionalist bumper sticker I can. They can waste time on my obese crippled butt. While other Threepers slip on by. He he.
I know this is old, and
I know that NOLA was an exceptional example of corruption in and of "The Only Ones"
But
I truly believe that in a "3-per" scenario, with widespread violence and "insurgency", most "local" cops are going to abandon their posts and head home to look after their own, somewhat like happened in NOLA post-katrina.
Not all, but most.
WV: D U Losses: I really hope they're HIGH!!
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