"Did you call me a pussy communist?" Sheriff Buelton: They're gonna lose, General. They're goin' down in flames and you're gonna help me do it. I just got back from the governor's office, and I can have him call you or he can call your superior if that's the way you want it. But, either way, I'm gonna see some tanks rollin' out here to stop that maniac.
Maj. Gen. V.E. Hubik: Go ahead, call anyone you like, sheriff. I don't take orders from governors. Sergeant Major Carey's resigned. Besides, he's committed no major crime in my jurisdiction.
Sheriff Buelton: He stole a god damn tank!
Maj. Gen. V.E. Hubik: It's his tank he can do what he wants with it! The most I've got him on is busting a twenty foot section of fence.
Sheriff Buelton: General, I am the local civilian authority and I am hereby making a formal request of the military to do everything in its power to assist and aid me in apprehending known...
Maj. Gen. V.E. Hubik: Posse Comitatus, sir.
Sheriff Buelton: Did you call me a pussy communist?
Maj. Gen. V.E. Hubik: The U.S. Army is, by an act of congress; Posse Comitatus act, specifically precluded from enforcing civilian law outside the military reservation.
Sheriff Buelton: Pussy communist?
Maj. Gen. V.E. Hubik: That means I do not have the authority to provide you with a single piece of military equipment or personnel without a direct order from my superior or the President of the United States. I can give you his address, if you'd like. -- Tank, 1984.
My thanks to Typeay and others for alerting me to this story from the Dothan (Alabama) Eagle. And I can tell you one thing they don't report in this story. The commander responsible for this stupidity? His career is toast.
Mike
III
Army report: Fort Rucker MPs in Samson after shooting a violation
By Lance Griffin
Published: October 19, 2009
The decision to send armed military policemen from Fort Rucker in response to the mass murders in Samson on March 10 was a violation of federal law, an Army investigation concluded.
According to records released to the Dothan Eagle on Monday, in response to a Freedom of Information request, the Department of Army Inspector General found that the armed troops in Samson violated the Posse Comitatus Act, which restrains the use of the military for civilian law enforcement purposes.
“... The historic tradition of limiting direct military involvement in civilian law enforcement activities, and the requirement of applicable law, do not appear to have been analyzed or considered. The intent was to be a good Army neighbor and help civilian law authorities facing a difficult, unique tragedy affecting the local community,” stated the Inspector General report, dated Aug. 10.
All names involved in the incident were redacted from the report.
The Inspector General report listed several recommendations in response to the violation, including: (1) Making a record of the allegation (2) Informing the Vice Chief of Staff of the Army of the finding and (3) Refer the report to the Office of the Judge Advocate General. The report did not state if anyone was disciplined.
According to the report, the troops responded to the situation in Samson based on a request from the Geneva County Sheriff’s Department and Samson Police Department. The report went on to say that although the troops were only on hand to support current law enforcement by manning traffic control points, the actions violated several “tests” used to determine whether a violation occurred.
“The first test was whether the actions of military personnel were active or passive ... the participating MPs did not view manning TCPs (traffic control points) as a law enforcement activity. The evidence indicated otherwise. By directing and diverting traffic and people, and by their uniformed and armed presence in the streets at TCPs, the MPs actively participated in law enforcement activities.”
The report also stated the actions constituted a violation because the MPs were not accompanied by civilian law enforcement at at least one of the traffic control points. Finally, the stated actions were a violation because the MPs “regulated the freedom of movement of civilian persons which served to prohibit those persons from going to where they might desire to go.”
The report states the officer who made the decision to send the MPs to Samson took full responsibility for his actions. He said he believed he had the authority based on his previous experience with military responses to Hurricanes Katrina and Andrew. However, the report stated the appropriate person to make the decision in this instance was the Secretary of Defense.
The incident that prompted the response occurred on the afternoon of March 10 when Michael McLendon drove into Samson and killed several residents downtown. McLendon eventually moved on to Geneva, where he killed himself at a local business. He killed 11 people, including himself.
12 comments:
Man, did this make my day.
(Email received. BT)
"Call me crazy, but I am just a TSgt in the United States Air Force and even I know that what those MP's did was illegal and if I was called to do what those MP's were asked to do I would have raised hell! I would have received hell back I am sure, but in the end, as in this story, I would have been vindicated. That officer was an idiot who needs to go back to college and learn the Constitution. Unfreaking believable stupidity. I have no sympathy for that "O." In my opinion he should be relegated to pushing papers the rest of his career. I mean, that's a pretty big violation of law. What would have happened if a civilian disobeyed the direction of an MP? What then? Does not that "O" realize the position he put his own troops into? Talk about a potential law suit from hell against the Army and the poor MP's that could have occurred."
This is kinda like closing the barn door after all of the animals have escaped.
'Sorry about all of the troops in your town! Sorry about any busted heads. We'll be sure and never do that again (wink,wink).'
I would guess that somebodys' career is not toast, but instead there was a promotion. I hope I'm wrong, but this just looks like a CYA report to put the masses at ease.
Maybe if his career is toast he can get a job commanding the "civilian Brown Shirts" for Obama. Surely they won't let this fool (useful idiot) go down in flames.
Oh wait isn't Posse Comitatus dead?
I sort of hope that MP's don't get hung out to dry over this, I would think that at least the CO/1SG should be responsible for this, but i am addend that the MP's failed to question the legality of that order. But I don't know if they did not, if they did and were informed that it was legal and even though that information was wrong I would think that would be good enough to keep the lower ranking soldiers out of trouble.
'Bout friggin' time. I was starting to get worried.
If our commander had tried that back in the day he would have been drawn and quartered.
"Pussy Communist" LOL I love that movie :)
"I would guess that somebodys' career is not toast, but instead there was a promotion."
Trust me on this. My sources tell me the guy's career is TOAST. That means, it's toast. As in done, over-done. Finito. No more important commands. No more promotions. Retirement in grade. Other officers shaking their heads when his name comes up. T-O-A-S-T.
Serious:
If the Obama team goes after all the MPs (not just the officers), then doesn't that encourage soldiers to question the legality of their orders before obeying? That's right up Oath Keepers' alley and only helps them out. I think they'll go after the officer and stop at that.
Funny:
Tank. I'd forgotten all about that movie. Good stuff in there. Civilians uniting to help out a man facing down corrupt and crooked law enforcement. Remember when the old guy in the house says, "You wanna burn me out? Fine. But I'll take a lot of you with me."
I love the scene at the Tennessee state line at the end of the movie. Anyway, the bikers start taking supplies off the truck to build a ramp and are challenged, "Hey! What are you boys doing!?" A deadpan, honest reply, "Stealing." GO VOLS!
We can organize OUR communities too. Now THERE'S some change those pussy communists can believe in!
Eric
...and I'm all out of bubble gum.
The comments section of that report has authority worshipers thanking the CO for the troops involvement and regretting that his career is screwed. I almost think Americans deserve to be subjugated by the military, just so they can see why the Founding Fathers included the 3rd Amendment and then Posse Comatitus was enacted...
Steve K...
You're right, of course, but it _does_ say something about the trust the people have in our military. In fact, I almost think that if we did have a military coup, the people wouldn't be all that upset - because they trust the military.
Of course, the military that enacts the coup wouldn't be exactly the same one that they trust, but many don't see that.
I'm surprised you just heard about this as it got quite a bit of play on the internet at the time.
Like Steve K. points out, some who claimed to be locals - I got the feeling many however were trolls, were very vocal in favor of having the troops on hand and damned be to the Constitution or any other law which might prevent it.
The sorry excuse they have for a sheriff should have been run out of the state on a rail. He apparently never heard of deputizing locals or organizing them before hand specifically to be able to response to these type of emergencies. Or it could be that the locals are a bunch of pussy communists...
bacsi
Seems to me the "problem" here (from the perspective of the PTB) is that the local "commander" failed to get permission from up his CoM.
The so-called "fusion centers" and other disgusting travesties make it pretty damn clear that if the black-flag ever goes up they're looking to the USMC et al to do all sorts of "domestic" work.
Posse Comitatus is dead, and this poor guy is just being thrown to the wolves in the hope that those who are bothered by such things will be lulled back to sleep.
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