It’s not a Fourth Amendment search if a cop swipes your credit card, court finds
In the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals’ 15-page opinion, swiping a card does not constitute a physical search, as the magnetic stripe simply contains the same information obviously visible on the front of the card. Plus, the defendant, Eric-Arnaud Benjamin Briere De L'Isle, couldn’t have had a reasonable privacy interest in the card, the court concluded, because he would have tried to use it when he tried to buy something, thereby giving up privacy interests to a third party (the issuing bank).
17 comments:
This is so far beyond a violation of the fourth amendment...it has entered the outright criminal arena.
Where I come from, this is just plain theft, robbery defined.
The worst part is that Americans will just take it...tossing up their hands and bowing to it all.Of course, until they won't take it anymore. Ask king George how that worked out.
They are just preparing the battle space for a cashless society where they can control you down to the penny.
I remember when the word "swipe" was a synonym for "theft".
[W3]
Whaaaa. . .. . Why in the name of UnHoly F*** would I GIVE any po-po my credit card?
Unless he has a warrant or probable cause (and it better be a pretty strong one), it stays in mt turse (tactical man purse).
I'm starting to think I'd get a lighter punishment if I just shot the bastards.
We are living through Robert Heinlein's "Crazy Years".
B Woodman
III-per
So you not presumed, innocent prior to judgement any more? OK I'll dance, I believe your a fake cop so let the gunfights begin? If they are looking to start a civi/cop/lawmaker war, keep passing laws like this and see how it plays out.
Well, I guess we have to go back to the source.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Note that "papers" are on the list, despite the fact that they can have no other purpose than sharing information, thus making all such information inherently 'public' by the court's reasoning. Note also that the right to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures has no connection to whether any of the things in question are being kept 'private' anyway, and that the standard of a "reasonable" search is the issuance of a Warrant describing the specific places to search and entities to be seized.
I really think that cops are going to be killed over this, you take a man's money with out due process and he is thinking what else have I got to lose. If this spreads to other states, which, I sure it will. It may be the camel's back is broken by that tiny piece of straw. You know it will not stop, towns and cities will use it as a revenue source. The 8th Circuit logic fails me to not think a card is not a paper of effects,, it is a private contract between you and the financial business, so yes, you expect privacy in that relationship.
How close are we to this point? (probably not very, but this quote comes to mind every time I read about this kind of shit)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything, he's no longer in your power - he's free again." Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
I don't know any businessowner who isn't being shaken down with ridiculous "fines" and "penalties" for regulatory non-compliance. Death by 1,000 papercuts.
Someone mentioned needing a PIN to run the card as a debit against funds currently in your account, which funds one assumes are looked at as "property", while running it as credit does not. One thing I have not seen mentioned is that credit is an agreement between you and the card issuer to lend you money you currently don't possess, which cannot be your property prior to the transaction. It is the card issuer's property is it not? Is your line of credit now considered your property? That idea has huge implications well beyond the issue of cops running cards; it changes the entire relationship between card holder and card issuer, and how physical property is defined in law. Wonder whether the card issuers will choke on this? Frankly, if they don't, I would refuse to pay the bill, as I did not authorize the "purchase"! Then I would file a criminal complaint for credit card theft. Why is the cop runnning MY card different from someone pinching my wallet and running up my cards!? Sooner or later someone is going to get killed over this BS.
When are Amerikans going to learn judges are not their to protect your Freedoms ?
"The worst part is that Americans will just take it...tossing up their hands and bowing to it all.Of course, until they won't take it anymore. Ask king George how that worked out."
The worst part is, most Americans worship the THUGS who do this day to do, who have become Highwaymen.
The Green Dragon Tavern is officially open for business.Behind enemy lines ,Ct.
Given the late date of this post, no one will probably read it but: doesn't anyone read anymore? Why do I need an un-named 'judge' to 'interpret' what is in plain English? The IV Amendment, '...secure in their persons, houses, papers and effect (note this part) against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated ...".
This is why, I'm on my own - stay the fuck out of my business (that would be not only Team Fed) but also all other forms of government (and their agencies). But, given no one has a cohesive method of pushing back - BOHICA folks - because it will only come faster and harder ..............
Worker
Keep a pair of scissors in your car. If you get pulled by a road agent, cut up all your cards. Order replacements when you're free and clear. It may be a little inconvenient for you, but at least you'll still have your money!
NEVER give your permission for a search. If you give your permission you give up your right to contest the search in court later. The LE officer might still conduct the search but make sure he notes in his report that the search was done over your objection.
- Old Greybeard
How about "swiping your credit card" or swiping anything constitutes theft?
I'm not sure why that would violate your 4th Amendment rights, but it should get the officer prosecuted for theft.
- Old Greybeard
How do the police acquire a right to search someone for credit or debit cards and then "search" the credit cards, particularly if they stop you for a traffic violation? Yes, they may be able to do a "Terry" pat down searching an individual for weapons. Terry pat downs do not include going through someone's wallet looking for credit cards. Even then, how do they acquire the right to search the credit card(s)? Beyond a "Terry" pat down, searches require "consent" or a warrant, if you "consent" then the door is open.
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