Are you kidding me, that conviction is complete BS. This man needs a good layer to step up and take this case to appeal. Hell if a cop can't ask for immigration status then how can a normal human being ask it? Damn this should be a national story.. Does this guy have a defense fund somewhere mike?
At what point will a Spanish-speaking 7th generation US citizen be turned away from a transaction at a gun show because of this kind of ATF entrapment of citizens?
I bet that tan/short/dark-haired people with an accent without US passports are already being charged an ATF-premium price for any gunshow purchases. Everyone should assume that State ID and State diver licenses are not really foolproof identification due to misrepresentation by the applicant, winking and nudging by DMV clerks, and just plain mistakes in the databases. This is pretending that the FedGov has not just faked-up a perfect laminated card from whatever authority/district that seems reasonable, even if they have not gone to the trouble of having the card info/photo/number entered into the appropriate database. No one without a suspicion and access to the whole database (more than "approved/not-approved" response from a $10 check) or willing to hire a background check would be reasonably able to deny the legitimacy of such card or the holder.
Convicting a seller when he did check a document assumed by most to be difficult to fake is outrageous. Failing to convict the buyers and other unlawfully-weapon-possessing illegal aliens reduces the legitimacy of the FedGov.
No doubt the prosecution got their jollies off prosecuting this.
The devil is in the details.
And ... where was the county Sheriff? Of course, sucking on the Federal tit and prostituting.
But of course, the times have changed. I have no doubt in my mind, that in the time of our forefathers, the Sons of Liberty would have been making a ruckus at the court house.
Instead ... hear the collective ... yawnnnnnnn...
We have a lonnnnng way to go folks. Here we are ... imagine where we will be.
"...because he "had reasonable cause to believe" he was selling to an illegal alien because the two men and a boy who were present at his table at the time of the sale: 1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing. And the jury did as asked."
WTF? Over.
So. The D.O.J is up the Az. Sheriffs asses for "racial profiling" yet citizens at gun shows are supposed to "racially profile"?
Our federal government is lawless.
By the way, it's supposed to be a jury of peers not a jury of steers.
What we have here - really - is a straw-purchase. Sounds to me like the seller performed due-diligence by checking the buyer's ID and thus had no further liability.
As to how a jury could convict -- well... That's a no-brainer. All we need to know is that a jury put Olafson in prison, and ....
I don't really blame the jury - they've been brainwashed by the media as we all once were.
I blame the BATFEces, the prosecutors and the judge.
All will someday - in this life or the next - pay for their crimes, I just pray it's sooner than later...
It IS incredible - the bat-FU! agents should meet their just ends, according to either karmic law or sowing and reaping, whichever, and may the day come soon. I also pray that some muslim will mistake that judge for Geert Wilders and earn his own way to his 70 virgins in hell by carrying out his imam's fatwa.
Did you happen to see Book of Eli? There was a scene in the main'town' in which Eli was sitting at a bar waiting for his canteen to be returned with a refill of water. A motorcycle thug who, earlier that day, had led a rape and murder sat down and tried to provoke a fight with Eli, which resulted in Eli, quick as a cat, slamming the man's head into the bar hard enough to apparently fracture his skull and break his neck. Just before this action reached its completion, Eli said that for the deeds this man had done, there would come a reckoning. It is obvious that he wasn't just referring to the temporal death he was meeting in a few seconds but to what would come afterward. Let us hope that all such cowards come to their judgments in time to prevent their harming others.
I am saddened to say that I believe the jury is just as guilty as the feds. When the day of reckoning comes they must also be at the gallows and take their responsibilities as will the feds. And to Sandman; these lawyers pick the dumbiest juries they can find and keep smart people off when they can. It's easy, just get the latest college or high school graduate and you will have all the dumb you can handle.
I was there at the gunshow where these federal thugs with the Austin Police Department had "suggested" to Gun Show promoter that he not allow any private sales only dealers to sell their merchandise. The worst part is that a jury actually went along with the judge and prosecutor and convicted Paul. Another glimpse of what the enemy will do. The judge the prosecutor and the jury. Get it into your head and heart, when the time is here and the blood starts to spill, remember who the enemy is,...the judge the prosecutor and the jury.
A Gallup poll reports that Republican candidates for the next elections have a "historic lead" over their Democrat opposition. I wonder if they even asked about other-party possibilities. The fed bureaucracy rolls on no matter which squad of the Uniparty team has the ball. Ruby Ridge is in the public consciousness again, thanks to William Shatner's "Aftermath" interview with Sarah Weaver. That happened on a Republican president's watch. The Republicans will promise us change, but I think we mishear. It's "chains," as usual.
The next person I come across who complains about "what looks illegal" in regards to the Arizona law is getting punched in the neck.
This is some insane Star Chamber madness.
How come no one ever mentions that "sanctuary cities" (and I actually think a few complete "sanctuary states") aren't interposition themselves? Or about how gun laws, any gun laws, are actually interposition of interposition?
No D.D., blame the Jury they found the Copeland guilty of a crime he did not commit. This truly Sadden´s me, and angers me at the same time.
Too many people think all is well in Texas, well it´s NOT. Austin and a couple of other Localities are FULL of Socialist/Progressives we have La Raza and Solomon Ortiz, Henry Cuellar and what´s her name Jackson Lee as Congressional Representatives. And we have some of the most restrictive Non-Restrictive gun Laws in the Southwest. And on top of that we Rick Perry as Governor so no all is not well in Texas.
Judge Sparks just added his name to the LIST at least my list. He should have thrown the case out of court and filled contempt charges against the ATF for bringing the case to trial. But then again He is a FEDERAL JUDGE and not a Texas Judge.
For just one minute put all the obvious bullshit on the feds part aside.This is what happens when juries are made up of oxygen thieves who have the IQ of a processed sausage food product.
I wonder if the guy had been an anglo with a Texas D/L, but a convicted felon, would the law have come down on him. Sounds like this whole thing was a set-up from the beginning. I do not sell to anyone anymore. It is just too risky, even though I live in a state that allows private party sales. Once again, the Leviathan is flexing its muscles, reminding the serfs how powerful and frightening it really is. And, this will continue. No Threeper, Oathkeeper or other "patriot" is going to raise a hand to help this poor soul or avenge this injustice. This is death by one thousand cuts. Poison in small doses. They are winning.
Can anybody define the mystical line in the sand that must be crossed before all hell can break loose?? No, I'm not anxious for this to happen but the list of abuses goes on and on and on!!
This week Lt.Col. Lakin was denied access to information to make his case against court martial. The judge in this case demands that an ordinary citizen do something that has landed Sheriff Arpio in a lawsuit for doing the exact same thing. Proof of citizenship.
Earlier this week Mike was set up to take a fall because he is an outspoken Patriot.
Since we are now in the football season I will use this analogy. There is a clear line on the field that must be crossed to be counted as a score. There has to be a defined line for all to know that separates action from inaction.
Names and addresses of the atf agents, judge, prosecutor, and illegal needed to be posted on the internet asap. these folks no longer get to hide. post their names and addresses for all to see.
Anonymouse 8.55... Go to your Google Search bar, type in four words: Paul Copeland Sam Sparks and hit "enter". You'll find all the corroboration you need from a multitude of sources. Go ahead- try it: you'll also be amazed at how easy it is to learn to do things for yourself and be liberated from having to whine and make futile attempts of crying "unfair" or "foul" just because you aren't spoon fed like all libs are. Shy III
Hey, shy wolf; I did. Before I posted my question. All the hits on google were blog posts mentioning the one source. None were solid info. Is that your idea of research, to find 100 blogs all pointing to the same source? It took an hour before I found a commenter who had an actual, factual news piece. Do you really consider it whining to expect supporting documentation on such an inflammatory issue? Is it crying 'unfair' or 'foul' to expect a source to provide hard facts? Do you simply believe everything you read? Lib? No, I think for myself. Try it sometime. You can take what you want blindly, but I'll wait for some corroboration.
Funny how the Federal government is creating the stimulus to discriminate against Hispanics in the private sales of firearms. It is a nice wedge issue to drive immigration reform (not of the comprehensive "shamnesty" type). Sounds like it is time to personally forbid private sales of firearms to Hispanics, both on an individual voluntary basis as well as on an institutional basis, until such time that a driver's license can be relied upon to convey a reliable indication of citizenship.
I am as much for freedoms for Hispanic citizens as for any other citizen. I have no animosity towards Hispanic people and do not wish to treat them disparately. But when the .gov's lack of vision allows its citizens to be punished for what it forbids its own law enforcement to do, such gross injustices require escalation. It is time that they (Hispanic citizens) realize the federales are not their friends, they are being used as tools of political manipulation, and they should mobilize against the government for making them the target of political ire.
Henceforth, I refuse to sell to, purchase from, trade and/or barter with people of Hispanic origin, features, or characteristics concerning firearms and other implements under the purview of the ATF, until such time 1) that a driver's license can be relied upon to convey a reliable indication of citizenship, 2) Paul Copeland's conviction is overturned, 3) his property and rights fully restored 4) suitable monetary and other compensation has been made for this trespass, and 5) a personal apology is received by Paul Copeland and his family from Sam Sparks, the Austin PD, and the Director of the ATF. I suggest that others (even Hispanic citizens), including organizations that sponsor gun shows, do the same to avoid the similar consequences as has befallen Paul Copeland.
Apologies in advance to Hispanic citizens who are wrongly inconvenienced by my choice. Talk to your .gov if my personal choice hurts your feelings.
40 comments:
Another point at which we all "back-up"?
YeOldFurt
Are you kidding me, that conviction is complete BS. This man needs a good layer to step up and take this case to appeal. Hell if a cop can't ask for immigration status then how can a normal human being ask it? Damn this should be a national story.. Does this guy have a defense fund somewhere mike?
At what point will a Spanish-speaking 7th generation US citizen be turned away from a transaction at a gun show because of this kind of ATF entrapment of citizens?
I bet that tan/short/dark-haired people with an accent without US passports are already being charged an ATF-premium price for any gunshow purchases. Everyone should assume that State ID and State diver licenses are not really foolproof identification due to misrepresentation by the applicant, winking and nudging by DMV clerks, and just plain mistakes in the databases. This is pretending that the FedGov has not just faked-up a perfect laminated card from whatever authority/district that seems reasonable, even if they have not gone to the trouble of having the card info/photo/number entered into the appropriate database. No one without a suspicion and access to the whole database (more than "approved/not-approved" response from a $10 check) or willing to hire a background check would be reasonably able to deny the legitimacy of such card or the holder.
Convicting a seller when he did check a document assumed by most to be difficult to fake is outrageous. Failing to convict the buyers and other unlawfully-weapon-possessing illegal aliens reduces the legitimacy of the FedGov.
Cheers.
This an abomination, how could any jury fall for such a blatant violation of common sense.
A day of Reckoning is coming...
This is just pure unadulterated evil.
No doubt the prosecution got their jollies off prosecuting this.
The devil is in the details.
And ... where was the county Sheriff? Of course, sucking on the Federal tit and prostituting.
But of course, the times have changed. I have no doubt in my mind, that in the time of our forefathers, the Sons of Liberty would have been making a ruckus at the court house.
Instead ... hear the collective ... yawnnnnnnn...
We have a lonnnnng way to go folks. Here we are ... imagine where we will be.
And the beat goes on...
They want us to be intimidated, afraid. They are achieving quite a different effect.
"...because he "had reasonable cause to believe" he was selling to an illegal alien because the two men and a boy who were present at his table at the time of the sale: 1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing. And the jury did as asked."
WTF? Over.
So. The D.O.J is up the Az. Sheriffs asses for "racial profiling" yet citizens at gun shows are supposed to "racially profile"?
Our federal government is lawless.
By the way, it's supposed to be a jury of peers not a jury of steers.
See you at Nuremberg 2.0!
Unreal.
What we have here - really - is a straw-purchase. Sounds to me like the seller performed due-diligence by checking the buyer's ID and thus had no further liability.
As to how a jury could convict -- well... That's a no-brainer. All we need to know is that a jury put Olafson in prison, and ....
I don't really blame the jury - they've been brainwashed by the media as we all once were.
I blame the BATFEces, the prosecutors and the judge.
All will someday - in this life or the next - pay for their crimes, I just pray it's sooner than later...
DD
It IS incredible - the bat-FU! agents should meet their just ends, according to either karmic law or sowing and reaping, whichever, and may the day come soon. I also pray that some muslim will mistake that judge for Geert Wilders and earn his own way to his 70 virgins in hell by carrying out his imam's fatwa.
Did you happen to see Book of Eli? There was a scene in the main'town' in which Eli was sitting at a bar waiting for his canteen to be returned with a refill of water. A motorcycle thug who, earlier that day, had led a rape and murder sat down and tried to provoke a fight with Eli, which resulted in Eli, quick as a cat, slamming the man's head into the bar hard enough to apparently fracture his skull and break his neck. Just before this action reached its completion, Eli said that for the deeds this man had done, there would come a reckoning. It is obvious that he wasn't just referring to the temporal death he was meeting in a few seconds but to what would come afterward.
Let us hope that all such cowards come to their judgments in time to prevent their harming others.
And the FEDS wonder why they are constantly being compared to the Stazzi, K.G.B.,and Mossad!
MY THE NANE OF SHAME FOREVER BE ON THE A.T.F, !!!!!
He had an appointed lawyer who didn't subpoena the witnesses needed to show that the ATF agents were a bunch of liars.
I am saddened to say that I believe the jury is just as guilty as the feds. When the day of reckoning comes they must also be at the gallows and take their responsibilities as will the feds. And to Sandman; these lawyers pick the dumbiest juries they can find and keep smart people off when they can. It's easy, just get the latest college or high school graduate and you will have all the dumb you can handle.
I was there at the gunshow where these federal thugs with the Austin Police Department had "suggested" to Gun Show promoter that he not allow any private sales only dealers to sell their merchandise. The worst part is that a jury actually went along with the judge and prosecutor and convicted Paul. Another glimpse of what the enemy will do. The judge the prosecutor and the jury. Get it into your head and heart, when the time is here and the blood starts to spill, remember who the enemy is,...the judge the prosecutor and the jury.
There was no way this wasn't a set up.
Worse, the trial happened in Austin-no problem finding 12 flyover country hating coffee shop idiots to convict.
They want to shut the free, private gun market down. Well, I'm redoubling my efforts to buy, sell, broker, trade privately, and so should you.
FTATF
If there's a defense fund chip in for this guy lemme know.
A Gallup poll reports that Republican candidates for the next elections have a "historic lead" over their Democrat opposition.
I wonder if they even asked about other-party possibilities.
The fed bureaucracy rolls on no matter which squad of the Uniparty team has the ball. Ruby Ridge is in the public consciousness again, thanks to William Shatner's "Aftermath" interview with Sarah Weaver. That happened on a Republican president's watch.
The Republicans will promise us change, but I think we mishear. It's "chains," as usual.
The next person I come across who complains about "what looks illegal" in regards to the Arizona law is getting punched in the neck.
This is some insane Star Chamber madness.
How come no one ever mentions that "sanctuary cities" (and I actually think a few complete "sanctuary states") aren't interposition themselves? Or about how gun laws, any gun laws, are actually interposition of interposition?
Tyranny advances and Patriots back up...again.
Someday there will be a reckoning...sure.
Yeah.
Sam
III
The names of all the .gov's involved should be entered on "The Roll"....or maybe put out to the public. Bring them out of the shadows.
No D.D., blame the Jury they found the Copeland guilty of a crime he did not commit. This truly Sadden´s me, and angers me at the same time.
Too many people think all is well in Texas, well it´s NOT. Austin and a couple of other Localities are FULL of Socialist/Progressives
we have La Raza and Solomon Ortiz, Henry Cuellar and what´s her name Jackson Lee as Congressional Representatives. And we have some of the most restrictive Non-Restrictive gun Laws in the Southwest. And on top of that we Rick Perry as Governor so no all is not well in Texas.
Judge Sparks just added his name to the LIST at least my list. He should have thrown the case out of court and filled contempt charges against the ATF for bringing the case to trial. But then again He is a FEDERAL JUDGE and not a Texas Judge.
Death to Tyrants and their Minions.
Dennis
III
Texas
PS, as a Texan I am embarrassed by this story
For just one minute put all the obvious bullshit on the feds part aside.This is what happens when juries are made up of oxygen thieves who have the IQ of a processed sausage food product.
I wonder if the guy had been an anglo with a Texas D/L, but a convicted felon, would the law have come down on him. Sounds like this whole thing was a set-up from the beginning.
I do not sell to anyone anymore. It is just too risky, even though I live in a state that allows private party sales. Once again, the Leviathan is flexing its muscles, reminding the serfs how powerful and frightening it really is. And, this will continue. No Threeper, Oathkeeper or other "patriot" is going to raise a hand to help this poor soul or avenge this injustice. This is death by one thousand cuts. Poison in small doses. They are winning.
How much longer, Mike?
Until they court martial a righteous doctor, because he is an embarrassment to Chairman Obama?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB--XdoZ0ZI&feature=player_embedded
There is no more rule of law in any sense of the word. It is now rule by force.
There is no more America as we knew it.
WarriorClass
III
Here is my question.
Can anybody define the mystical line in the sand that must be crossed before all hell can break loose?? No, I'm not anxious for this to happen but the list of abuses goes on and on and on!!
This week Lt.Col. Lakin was denied access to information to make his case against court martial. The judge in this case demands that an ordinary citizen do something that has landed Sheriff Arpio in a lawsuit for doing the exact same thing. Proof of citizenship.
Earlier this week Mike was set up to take a fall because he is an outspoken Patriot.
Since we are now in the football season I will use this analogy. There is a clear line on the field that must be crossed to be counted as a score. There has to be a defined line for all to know that separates action from inaction.
Doug
Newark, Ohio
another step back
This is a political tactic to create uncertainty and fear among the ignorant citizenry.
Corrupt judges and crooked enforcers and illegal laws.. Business as usual.
Why are we just now hearing about this?
The question is, outside of doing a Henry Bowman (from Unintended Consequences), just what can we do?
Try fixing THIS at the ballot box. Those jurors are our electorate.
They surround us.
Is there any corroborating documentation?
A press release, or an article in an actual paper?
All I can see is one web-site telling a story.
Anyone really surprised by this?
Enraged? Sure.
Surprised? Not one bit.
I put nothing past the feralgov.
Jon
III
Names and addresses of the atf agents, judge, prosecutor, and illegal needed to be posted on the internet asap. these folks no longer get to hide. post their names and addresses for all to see.
When?
How did these BATFAE thugs get out of that gun show with their bodies intact?
Were there no men in Texas that day?
Anonymouse 8.55...
Go to your Google Search bar, type in four words: Paul Copeland Sam Sparks and hit "enter". You'll find all the corroboration you need from a multitude of sources. Go ahead- try it: you'll also be amazed at how easy it is to learn to do things for yourself and be liberated from having to whine and make futile attempts of crying "unfair" or "foul" just because you aren't spoon fed like all libs are.
Shy III
Anonymous
Is there any corroborating documentation?
A press release, or an article in an actual paper?
All I can see is one web-site telling a story.
September 4, 2010 8:55 PM
Okay, so you are getting my posts.
Delete my profile, "Done snoozin'".
Show some integrity.
Hey, shy wolf;
I did. Before I posted my question.
All the hits on google were blog posts mentioning the one source.
None were solid info.
Is that your idea of research, to find 100 blogs all pointing to the same source?
It took an hour before I found a commenter who had an actual, factual news piece.
Do you really consider it whining to expect supporting documentation on such an inflammatory issue?
Is it crying 'unfair' or 'foul' to expect a source to provide hard facts?
Do you simply believe everything you read?
Lib? No, I think for myself. Try it sometime.
You can take what you want blindly, but I'll wait for some corroboration.
Funny how the Federal government is creating the stimulus to discriminate against Hispanics in the private sales of firearms. It is a nice wedge issue to drive immigration reform (not of the comprehensive "shamnesty" type). Sounds like it is time to personally forbid private sales of firearms to Hispanics, both on an individual voluntary basis as well as on an institutional basis, until such time that a driver's license can be relied upon to convey a reliable indication of citizenship.
I am as much for freedoms for Hispanic citizens as for any other citizen. I have no animosity towards Hispanic people and do not wish to treat them disparately. But when the .gov's lack of vision allows its citizens to be punished for what it forbids its own law enforcement to do, such gross injustices require escalation. It is time that they (Hispanic citizens) realize the federales are not their friends, they are being used as tools of political manipulation, and they should mobilize against the government for making them the target of political ire.
Henceforth, I refuse to sell to, purchase from, trade and/or barter with people of Hispanic origin, features, or characteristics concerning firearms and other implements under the purview of the ATF, until such time 1) that a driver's license can be relied upon to convey a reliable indication of citizenship, 2) Paul Copeland's conviction is overturned, 3) his property and rights fully restored 4) suitable monetary and other compensation has been made for this trespass, and 5) a personal apology is received by Paul Copeland and his family from Sam Sparks, the Austin PD, and the Director of the ATF. I suggest that others (even Hispanic citizens), including organizations that sponsor gun shows, do the same to avoid the similar consequences as has befallen Paul Copeland.
Apologies in advance to Hispanic citizens who are wrongly inconvenienced by my choice. Talk to your .gov if my personal choice hurts your feelings.
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