Marines will see changes in marksmanship and weapons gear this year, including the phasing out of legacy M16 iron sights and the three-point sling. Marine officials announced annual changes to the Corps' combat marksmanship program last week based on recommendations from a gathering of key decision makers aboard Marine Corps Base Quantico, Virginia, last October.
Saturday, March 12, 2016
Marines ditch iron sights.
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22 comments:
Iron sights are not politically correct, as blind people joining the marines find them difficult to use
No iron sights huh? No bueno....
Stupid is as stupid does...
I'm guessing that will last only until the batteries run out or the electronics fail in somebody's optics at critical point during a battle and a dozen or more guys get killed because of it. Seems to take that kind of thing happening before the geniuses in the Pentagon realize they've made a mistake. It's called BUIS for a reason.
-MM
Very interesting... but DUMB!!!
MikeH.
There's a reason for co-witnessing.
Meanwhile, that AK platform dominates the world where there are no CR123A, CR2032, or whatever batteries.
We are friggin doomed.
We have to make it easier for the girls.
"but sarge, we've run out of batteries how are we going to fight now???"
How effing stupid. Must be for the girlie men.
Reading is fundamental. If you mooks bothered to read the Marine Times, you would note the use of BUIS. The Marines will still teach iron sight use, but using a good advanced sighting system will vastly improve combat performance. Ask an combat vet that really used his rifle with optics. They will nearly all say what a advantage over the iron sighted enemy the optic provided. The Marine leadership know what they are doing, no need for outrage from the peanut gallery. NOG
I guess, no one read the actual article. The title is wrong. The switch is from the legacy fixed iron sights (and handle) to BUIS.
"QUICK ! Let's phase out ...."
Hand to hand training
Bayonets
.45 pistols
Thompson & M3 SMGs
Combat Shotguns
M-14
.50 BMG M2
Bazooka
A4 Skyhawk
OV-10
UH-1 Huey
A-10
"Sir, no, wait....let's NOT.....wait...we really NEED that
stuff. It ALL really works, is paid for, and is very cost effective."
"QUIET, you ! We'll phase it out, be proven wrong, see it brought
back, and phase it out AGAIN. It's what we do here in the puzzle
palace. Oh, add iron sights to that list."
"Yes....sir."
"The legacy iron sights will be replaced with micro backup iron sights, which are modular attachments that can be affixed to a rifle’s rail mount and flipped up for use.
"But the Corps will still need to train Marines to use iron sights in fundamental marksmanship should the rifle combat optic’s red dot go dead, said Kyle Lamb, a weapons consultant through his company Viking Tactics who retired from the Army’s Delta Force.
“It’s sad to see the iron sights go,” he said. “The Marine Corps takes marksmanship seriously. If you need [the micro iron sights], you need them; just flip them up and you’re good to go.”
I have to agree that it's a bit sad too see the fixed iron sights go, there's just no way these flip-up micro iron sights are anywhere near as reliable. But it's not catastrophic, just sad. The fact is that to keep iron sights properly set requires some fiddling around too, and they are quite as vulnerable to failure in a combat environment as modern electro-optical sights (possibly a bit more so, for Marines' intensity).
I'd think it would be preferable to adopt an electro-optical that could be used in-line or only slightly off-set above the iron sights (when using iron sights, you need a tighter cheek-weld anyway), and keep the fixed iron sights rather than moving to these detachable ones. That seems cheaper and less fiddly in concept, but then again there's lots of things I would change if it were up to me, and yet it isn't.
If you take the time to actually read the Marine Times Articles this comes from you will see that they are only dumping the carry handle/w built in sights. They will be using flip up micro sights along with the optic of issue on all new acquisition rifles. They are also consolidating training courses for administrative reasons while boots will still get basic marksmanship to start, the rest will be a mix including the civilian sport of 3 gun as well as assault courses and a new re qualification system doing away with yards and shooting it all in metric.
I don't think sights built into the carry handle are a good idea. Iron sights should be closer to the barrel's bore axis for best accuracy.
- Old Greybeard
No contraption ever conceived by the mind of man has ever been failure proof. That includes almost all varieties of iron sights. After having been subjected to the heavy and sustained recoil (right!) of the first 30 rd mag of 5.56 ever fired through my son's M4 clone, the pivot pin of the MI BUIS flip up rear walked out. We never did recover all of the pieces.
I guaran-damn-tee you that if Capt. Parker and his men had had access to modern gear they would have used it. And that would include click adjustable sights, optical or iron. An edge is an edge no matter it's nature or source. A both eyes open wide field of view is preferable in combat, especially in the CQB arena.
Like the single shot and/or bolt action battle rifle, iron sights are a well respected feature of a bygone era.
As a Retired Marine, I have to say that the faddish nature of what they do will hurt and/or be inefficient. This is nothing more than a "v neck - crew neck" debate.
The standard iron sight system is perfected. Optics, while having many notable advantages, will also require more training time and maintenance. They are another item to lose. The best way ahead would have been "BOTH". That would maximize lethality.
If they were to shed the LGBTQ drive and much of the other social stupidity, think of all the money that could go to weapons & marksmanship training. At some point, they will have to make a choice... are they an organization of "social change", or are they a professional military organization of highly respected competency?
America does not need a Marine Corps, but opts for it because they WANT one. How long this will remain true is an open question. As the political path gets ever leftward, I expect the USMC may face some trimming until it is a mere ceremonial structure.
The dumbing down has reached all the way to the Pentagon.....we are so screwed!
Someone seems to have conveniently forgotten the maxim that 'marines break shit', it's an inherent characteristic of being a marine. Marines are some of the most motivated cannon fodder in the world and they EXCEL at breaking shit. The reason iron sights have worked so well for the beloved USMC for so long is because iron sights are so incredibly hard to break.
This reminds me of a Hitler's Downfall parody:
Hitler Finds Out about tacticool carbines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLcZG4JW1IM
Hilarious!
From talking to current soldiers about their weapons at military displays over the past year, it appears to be the case that the British Army has abandoned iron sights on front line infantry rifles (SA80A2) and backup iron sights aren't issued. The rifles have an Elcan with red dot mounted on top of the Elcan and laser aiming module attached to the forend.
"Two weeks after the balloon goes up, iron sights will rule the world" - Clint Smith
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