Given what happened during Katrina, I'd say the opinion in that article is a minority opinion. Most LEO I've had the misfortune to interact with while legally armed have shown their utter distrust of a law-abiding citizen exercising his second amendment right. Given the opportunity to disarm me, I have no doubt they would jump at the chance. May be different for smaller counties and local sheriffs but urban cops are a different breed.
Being a military and LEO veteran for 38+ years (& counting) I am not worried about this - YET. The 'tone' (which is what I believe Mr. H is referring to in his article) is slowly changing in both communities. It used to be that virtually all military/LE types would have said resoundingly not just NO but HELL NO. That majority is still there but it is changing. The proof is the actions taken after Katrina - law abiding citizens had their personally owned firearms 'confiscated' at the behest of the NOPD 'chief' and his boss. Both of whom denied it had taken place - even in the face of videos taken of CHP SWAT guys (among others) forcing their way into private residences to do so.
Bottom line, the times are a-changing, and NOT in our favor.
I went and read your link and his link. I was not as shocked as I expected to be. Thanks be to God, most of the commenters realize their oaths are not to the law or to their bosses, but to the Constitution for the United States of America.
There were a couple of "I'll follow any orders I'm given. I have a job to do and a family to support" guys. I took heart in those who answered them by pointing out the dangers of following that line of reasoning.
I am not a fan of many cops, but I fear them a little less than I did a few hours ago. I think the "would you or wouldn't you" questions need to be a part of the interview process.
I'm with the guy in the article's comments that said "show me verifiable instances of LEOs refusing direct orders to confiscate legally owned arms". My uncle was a cop, and a lot of my friends were cops growing up. It was a different time, and I fear that those days are gone.
Perhaps a sincere heart to heart with one or two of our local constabulary might change my mind-after all, it really is all local.
I share the concerns voiced above. When I saw the original title of this article, I thought of the 29 Palms Combat Arms Survey that was well known some years ago. The survey included a question about armed forces personnel agreeing to take an oath to the U.N. and a final question asking whether the individuals taking the survey would agree to confiscate arms from American citizens. Evidently about 1/4 of the Marines indicated they would use force to take firearms from citizens.
I think you might want to read the description of the survey by its author, LCDR Ernest "Guy" Cunningham, on the Oathkeeper's web site, at http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/2009/04/lcdr-ret-ernest-g-cunningham-and-famous.html. LCDR Cunningham clarifies his purpose it conducting the survey. He also offers some very interesting discussion about the responses and conjectures about why some of the Marines blithly agreed to violate their oath to uphold the Constitution. Finally, he also has some comments about the atrocious treatment of SP4 Michael New.
To sum up my comment, LCDR Cunningham's background on the 29 Palms Combat Arms Survey suggest that it is unwise to rely on local law enforcement to follow the Constitution and their oath.
6 comments:
Given what happened during Katrina, I'd say the opinion in that article is a minority opinion. Most LEO I've had the misfortune to interact with while legally armed have shown their utter distrust of a law-abiding citizen exercising his second amendment right. Given the opportunity to disarm me, I have no doubt they would jump at the chance. May be different for smaller counties and local sheriffs but urban cops are a different breed.
Being a military and LEO veteran for 38+ years (& counting) I am not worried about this - YET. The 'tone' (which is what I believe Mr. H is referring to in his article) is slowly changing in both communities. It used to be that virtually all military/LE types would have said resoundingly not just NO but HELL NO. That majority is still there but it is changing. The proof is the actions taken after Katrina - law abiding citizens had their personally owned firearms 'confiscated' at the behest of the NOPD 'chief' and his boss. Both of whom denied it had taken place - even in the face of videos taken of CHP SWAT guys (among others) forcing their way into private residences to do so.
Bottom line, the times are a-changing, and NOT in our favor.
I went and read your link and his link. I was not as shocked as I expected to be. Thanks be to God, most of the commenters realize their oaths are not to the law or to their bosses, but to the Constitution for the United States of America.
There were a couple of "I'll follow any orders I'm given. I have a job to do and a family to support" guys. I took heart in those who answered them by pointing out the dangers of following that line of reasoning.
I am not a fan of many cops, but I fear them a little less than I did a few hours ago. I think the "would you or wouldn't you" questions need to be a part of the interview process.
I'm with the guy in the article's comments that said "show me verifiable instances of LEOs refusing direct orders to confiscate legally owned arms". My uncle was a cop, and a lot of my friends were cops growing up. It was a different time, and I fear that those days are gone.
Perhaps a sincere heart to heart with one or two of our local constabulary might change my mind-after all, it really is all local.
I share the concerns voiced above. When I saw the original title of this article, I thought of the 29 Palms Combat Arms Survey that was well known some years ago. The survey included a question about armed forces personnel agreeing to take an oath to the U.N. and a final question asking whether the individuals taking the survey would agree to confiscate arms from American citizens. Evidently about 1/4 of the Marines indicated they would use force to take firearms from citizens.
I think you might want to read the description of the survey by its author, LCDR Ernest "Guy" Cunningham, on the Oathkeeper's web site, at http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/2009/04/lcdr-ret-ernest-g-cunningham-and-famous.html. LCDR Cunningham clarifies his purpose it conducting the survey. He also offers some very interesting discussion about the responses and conjectures about why some of the Marines blithly agreed to violate their oath to uphold the Constitution. Finally, he also has some comments about the atrocious treatment of SP4 Michael New.
To sum up my comment, LCDR Cunningham's background on the 29 Palms Combat Arms Survey suggest that it is unwise to rely on local law enforcement to follow the Constitution and their oath.
rustynail
Molon Labe mutherfuckers!
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