U.S. Army soldiers from Ft. Rucker patrol the downtown area of Samson, Alabama after a shooting spree March 10, 2009. At least 10 people including the suspected gunman and his mother were killed in the shooting spree and car chase in southern Alabama on Tuesday, authorities said. REUTERS/Mark WallheiserAnd the fact that a long held belief of mine has just vanished in a bloody mist. I always thought that if one of these deranged spree killers tried this shit in Alabama, that the armed citizenry would have him down and out before the cops ever got there. Didn't happen.
The victims and their families are in our prayers. The people who ordered federal soldiers onto our streets in violation of Posse Comitatus ought to be (brought to justice).*
* Original suggestion redacted on advice of counsel.
41 comments:
This is why we do what we do, bro... it ain't gonna get any better.
The source: http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Ala-Shooting/ss/events/us/031109alabamashootin/im:/090311/ids_photos_ts/r719956714.jpg/
Hard to believe there wasn't someone there with a gun... especially in that state.
Regular Army? I thought things like this were the venue of the National Guard?
Maybe they just want to get the citizens, ooops, pardon me, SUBJECTS, used to seeing regular Army in the streets.
Not that most of them would know the difference....
The base commander's info is here; suggest some firm calls in the am would be helpful:
Thoughts?
This is a depression. What average armed law-abiding civilian on the street will agree to waste $100,000 on a legal defense and gamble their freedom in the legal system, to help a stranger who is probably a liberal gun banner? The first rule of rescue work is not to become a casualty yourself.
Unbelievable, but there it is in Kodak color.
Where are the local cops? Local Sheriff? If anyone is patroling, it should be them, not military boys. Besides, the perp was already down and the threat no longer existed, so WTF are US MILTARY personel doing on civilian streets? Must be a 'training exercise'. Yeah, sure.
Did anyone talk to these guys? Hmmm, maybe a bad idea if they had been told to treat it as martial law?
An explanation by Col Kelley and the Gov of AL is most necessary. (I won't be holding my breath)
Bobcat
I'd draw on my own momma if she were to aim a gun at my dad. Amazing nobody intervened. In Alabama?
Just another is a long line of totally illegal order (posse comitatus) troop postings on U.S. soil to acclimate the fearful public that "all is well, we're just here to take care of you."
All is NOT well, as we have all already seen how post hurricane Katrina citizens in New Orleans were treated. They were DISARMED.
My thoughts exactly on both things.
Why the hell was no one there armed and trained enough to take out this madman?
Why the hell were ARMY troops put on OUR streets?
Not on my watch. Not at all.
We of all knew this day would come. Day one of... how many? How many days like this until they just start patrolling because they 'think' something will happen. And, how many more days, from this day to that, will they start patrolling 'just because'?
So has anyone heard the 'justification' for troops on the streets following a multiple murder?
Did the Alabama governor request these troops' presence?
Did the town Mayor?
Did the townspeople?
Where is the "emergency declaration"?
Why aren't Alabamans deluging their local, county and state governments over this?
Where is the county sheriff? What does HE have to say about this incursion into HIS jurisdiction?
From http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7055006&page=1 there was this encouraging nugget:
"We were just business as normal, and all of a sudden there were bullets flying and glass was everywhere," owner David Bradley told the Dothan Eagle newspaper. "We realized what it was and grabbed our guns, but then he was gone."
Seems some of the right mindset is still around. It seems it would just need to be honed.
Hanged.
Could this be just another Concorde Bridge, maybe just to try and draw out our "feelings"?
Eh, I thought Posse Comitatus was dead after the "patriot act" anyway.
To be fair, if I understand the situation, after taking out the shooter the sheriff found out that his wife and daughter were two of the victims. Small town department doesn't have that many officers, so I am thinking the mayor may have requested aid from the closest authority, Fort Rucker. That and these days the soldier boys are a might paranoid that any violence could be a diversion for a terrorist attack.
Not saying it's right, but there are details here we don't know yet.
Also, am hearing the shooter had an SKS, Bushmaster, shotgun, and a .38. Early reports from some news agencies claimed automatic fire which I found highly suspect at the time. I smell yet another attempt to equate semi and full auto in the minds of the uneducated public.
You know, if this was a Mumbai type of incident, I could understand and even want a military presence - that was an attack by foreigners on the country, albeit not a big one. THIS incident, horrible as it was, was simply a nutcase mass-murderer (yeah, I know, that's an oxymoron). It is a POLICE matter and, as was pointed out, the perp was down by the time these soldiers arrived on the scene (and maybe before they were even ordered there).
It will, indeed, be interesting to hear from both the Alabama guv. and the Army and explanation of WHY MILITARY FORCES WERE DEPLOYED IN A CIVILIAN AREA WHEN THERE WAS NO THREAT OF INVASION OR FOREIGN-BASED ATTACK????
I wonder what these guys would've done if an armed civilian came up to them?
The news that I read about this stated that he shot at two cops. One was a highway patrol who somehow hid in his car or behind it as the gunman shot the car. The other was a town's chief of police who ran into a store to hide. The news story never said one word about them returning fire. Once he was up the road a few feet why didn't they return fire but stayed in hiding until they knew darn well it was safe to come out.
Mike, this guy was moving fast so the folks down your way didn't get a chance to cross hair him. Had this been at a mall or something I'm sure he would have been dusted quickly. He seemingly killed some people in their own homes and I would be wiling to say put the drop on them.
Lets not forget this killer was once a cop who was trained by them. Also in the news it looks like he may have changed his semi auto into a full auto. The way the news story stated he sprayed 30 rounds into a car. This maybe why the two cops ran for cover and hid because they were up against a full auto.
But lets not lose sight of one very important thing. Was this guy taking the mind controlling drugs that every single one of these killers have in common. My hunch is yes, and yes again will the lame stream media try and cover that damning fact up.
Mike, Its hard to hit a moving target in such situations. So I'm still going to hold the folks down your way in the highest regards.
A few thoughts:
(1) Alabama is still a "May Issue" state. In practice, it might function similarly to a shall-issue state, but the sheriff determines whether you get a license to carry. If the sheriff doesn't like the "cut of your jib", he can deny you a license and you have no recourse under the law;
(2) I would expect that sheriffs in, or around, large cities deny more CCW applications than those in rural areas (all other things being equal);
(3) Even in shall-issue states, the percentage of the population that secures a license AND carries in all places where s/he is legally able to do so is pitifully small. The probability is thus very, very low that this killer would run into someone who was armed at the moment of encounter.
(4) Don't presume that simply because a state hosts a strong hunting community, that said state will likewise host large numbers of citizens armed for purposes of self-defense. Alabama is by no means gun-unfriendly, and a substantial percentage of homeowners are likely armed, but I do think that our expectations regarding citizens armed outside of the home may not reflect the reality.
It is conditioning, Mike. That is all.
I emailed Governor Riley the picture referenced in the post, asking for an explanation. They'll get right back to me, I'm sure.
I'm certain that I'm now on a "list" someplace.
To Uncle Lar: I also try to think
of reasons why this might not be
as bad as it sound (and as it really is) but none of them are tenable.
To A Texan: What is needed in the
event of a Mumbai type incident is
on the scene response from the
genuine Constitutional militia,
the need for which was apparent
7 and 1/2 years ago (but ignored)
if not sooner. Mumbai was the final
wake up call.
To Mike V and all: I am really not
sure who if anyone could have responded in time given the narratives I find in the media. Knowing the media, there may be key omissions. But the other reason for you dismay cannot be contested.
This is as good a place as any to note that Dr. Josh Backon of the HUJI medical school faculty has
recently reiterated his counsels
regarding hot water immersion:
As long as the water undergoes sanitation it's one of the healthiest activities you can imagine (head out water immersion raises atrial natriuretic factor causing both vasopressin inhibition and simultaneous inhibition of the 3 inflammatory cytokines (iNOS, NFKappaB, and TNFalpha). Great for treating heart disease, cancer, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, glaucoma and half a hundred other disorders. -- Josh Backon M.D. of the Hebrew University Medical School faculty, on s.c.j.m. recently.
All the best, cycjec.
To clarify my last, even in the best possible case, if these were
National Guard troops their presence is now unnecessary and is useless in thwarting any future attack of this sort, be it by a
deranged individual or a Mumbai style team. I trust most readers here can explain this better than I can. cycjec
Does anyone else find this sudden "spree" of serial shootings to be suspicious? I mean, c'mon, two here in the states within a week of each other (this one in Alabama and the church shooting Maryville, Illinois last week), plus the one in Germany yesterday. This stuff doesn't "just happen" with this kind of frequency.
Call me a conspiracy theorist or worse (g'head, I've grown a thick hide over the years), but given the gun-grabbing intentions of the Obamunist Regime (the new Shyster General has made these intentions crystal clear), is it not entirely plausible that these recent acts are Manchurian Candidate events deliberately set in motion for the purpose of lending legitimacy to the impending domestic disarmament campaign? Would anyone put ANYTHING past the Regime, its particular partisan flavor du temps not withstanding?
Just some crumbs for thought.
Does ANYONE know WHO asked for/authorized this federal invasion?
And what the reasoning/justification for it was.
That seems to be the major unanswered question.
Bob
III
As long as most Americans are disarmed, the massacres will continue.
All news accounts are suspect. As Jefferson once wrote, "It is a melancholy truth, that a suppression of the press could not more completely deprive the nation of its benefits, than is done by its abandoned prostitution to falsehood. Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle."
Anyway, if the accounts I saw are to be believed, the whole thing took almost an hour. Seems long enough to grab a scoped hunting rifle to take the fellow out.
The motivations don't seem very plausible; I mean, being reported for not wearing earplugs? That is putting him on a killing spree? He must have been on drugs, or maybe he was victim of some experimental rage-inducing drug from government agents. Just about anything is believable these days.
I have been following this case all day yesterday on whatever online sources I can read. It was surreal.
I knew something like this is going to fuel the globalist imperialists' fire. They are probably laughing now and saying, "soon, we'll get those rednecks' guns." Damn. DAMN! WHY?! I am completely speechless now, because the media douchebags will definitely point out that an "assault weapon" is used.
RIP to those who were killed in this tragedy that should have never happened.
I am not sure about the conspiracy and Manchurian Candidate part, but there is definitely something terribly dark behind it.
As for the Army in the streets. Thats just the buildup of clouds on the horizon that we are seeing right now of the storm that is heading our way. I can feel the wind on my face and hear the thunder already.
Be safe, everybody. Look after your loved ones, elders, children, people who need specialized care. Make sure you are stocked on necessities like battery operated radios, generators, lanterns, kerosene, MREs, etc...
Who cares? Are you guys afraid of the U.S. military on the streets? They took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. They're out there to keep you free and safe. They're brave, American soldiers. Remember that.
QUOTE Who cares? Are you guys afraid of the U.S. military on the streets? They took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. They're out there to keep you free and safe. They're brave, American soldiers. Remember that. QUOTE
They didn't keep anyone safe in New Orleans right after Katrina though. I understand your viewpoint, Patriot, but sometimes, under the guise of "keeping us safe", they can really be just tightening the noose of tyranny around our necks. And I also heard that the Posse Comitatus has expired, so thats kind of like happy hour for those who wish to put us in chains.
Also in New Orleans they had Blackwater thugs patrolling the streets too. More than one old man or lady had his/her arms and/or legs broken every day by these jolly mall ninjas who prowl around and are up to absolutely no good.
Based on your posting style I conclude you are new to this site. Welcome to Sipsey Street Irregulars, friend, and take your time to browse and learn more. Also visit our sister sites, Mr. Codrea's War On Guns, and Western Rifle Shooters. Sometimes, defending fredom means that we have to be cautious.
QUOTE I wonder what these guys would've done if an armed civilian came up to them? QUOTE
They would have Ruby Ridged the armed civilian on the spot, and then offer a canned apology to the dead man's/woman's family. Thats all. Maybe pay a little compensation, maybe no compensation, depending on how the judge believes their doctored-up stories afterward. And if there are witnesses present at the shooting, the witnesses would most likely end up victims of "friendly fire". You know. This shit's been done before, at Waco.
The mentality of those "authorities" called in to pacify a "danger zone" has been soaked in years of brainwashing. They are taught that any signs of weapons are a threat, and lethal force must be used to take it out. I have never been in the military but I do study military history over the ages, and, these "KOS" (Kill On Sight) rules are fairly recent. They have been applied in Afghanistan and Iraq already, and some of the civilian casualties are a direct result of these tactics.
Always remember: If you notice that the excrement is about to flung, it is best to hightail out of there as fast as you can, or take shelter. When you see armed paramilitary out and about, martial law has already been issued, whether it is on paper or not, official or not. Stay safe, everybody.
huh uh, Patriot. They are not. If the were, they would have refused an order that violates their oath to the constitution.
Straightarrow, if you don't like what the politicians are doing with the military, why don't you vote to change it? Maybe someday the politicians will listen to you. This is America. A Constitutional Republic. So vote for the politicians who will make you more free. Look what it's done for us in the past 100 years. More freedoms every day.
Qi Ji Guang,
U.S. soldiers will never follow orders to put Americans in internment camps, and will never open fire on their fellow Americans. They're different than every other military force in history. They've sworn an oath to protect U.S. citizens, and they will uphold the Constitution! The Constitution: source and fount of all our God-given rights.
Maybe these guys won't have a problem shooting you...
http://www.statenews.com/index.php/article/2008/04/recruiting_felons_for_military_risky_unavoidable
Or these...
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126986.300-regulate-armed-robots-before-its-too-late.html
Both tend to not give a shit about the Constitution...or you.
PatriotUSA,
I challenge you to walk up to any member of the military, and ask them to quote the 2nd Amendment. After you get a clueless look or a wrong answer, go and ask ten more, hoping to get a good average. Now that you haven't gotten an answer after eleven tries, ask yourself how the hell someone is supposed to support and defend something , when they have no clue what it is?
I was a Constitutional activist in the active Army. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the vast majority of troops don't even know the Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution.
This is America. A Constitutional Republic.
I question that assertion every day.
I find it very hard to argue that we are a constitutional republic anymore.
QUOTE U.S. soldiers will never follow orders to put Americans in internment camps, and will never open fire on their fellow Americans. They're different than every other military force in history. They've sworn an oath to protect U.S. citizens, and they will uphold the Constitution! The Constitution: source and fount of all our God-given rights. QUOTE
Actually, I predict about 3 percent of these soldiers will not follow orders to brutalize their own people. If you look at the US prison system today, and Guantanamo, as well as Abu Ghraib, you will see that the institutionalized violence mentality exists in both areas. Many of the prisoner beatings, humiliations, institutionalized murder by neglect/restraint, etc... are also done here in some of the worst prisons. Ever heard of "Gladiator School?" That is the Michigan State Correctional Facility. Some of the people in that prison are in there just for some minor "offences", like tax trouble. They were beaten up, sodomized, and humiliated during their incarceration. What is even more unnerving is that the guards themselves are the worst perpetrators of these acts. If push comes to shove, and an unconstitutional order comes down to disarm Americans and round up political "enemies", many servicemembers will obey. Some might desert, some might use civil disobedience, and some might actively fight on the militia's side, but more of them will blindly follow government orders than think for themselves.
In such a situation, it will be the constitutional militia who will be the main force of defiance against the totalitarian storm. It will be the constitutional militia who the entire world will be observing, and reporting on. It will be the constitutional militia who will have to put on the most positive example for the whole world to follow. The constitutional militia is the seed where freedom blossoms forth once again in a world gone mad.
We must never make the same mistakes that both the Taipings made from 1853-1864, and Li Zhizeng made in the twilight years of the Ming Dynasty: that is alienate themselves and losing popular support.
III
Patriot USA said; "U.S. soldiers will never follow orders to put Americans in internment camps, and will never open fire on their fellow Americans. They're different than every other military force in history. They've sworn an oath to protect U.S. citizens, and they will uphold the Constitution! The Constitution: source and fount of all our God-given rights."
Oh good. I am so glad to hear that. I always thought the Hooverville killings didn't happen, nor the internment of Japanese Americans, nor the confiscation of firearms from Katrina victims, nor Kent State, nor Waco (admittedly no military personell, but they lent the killers equipment), or patrol the streets of Samson, Al, nor abuse the citizens of Cedar Rapids, Ia. during the flood. Those were all Steven Spielberg films, right?
I am so glad you have informed me that they would never do such a thing. But that begs the question, "Who stole their uniforms and equipment and did do these things?" Oh, and "Where were they when they realized this shit was being done in their names? Why didn't they mount an attack on these impostors."
Grow the fuck up.
I think the truth lies somewhere in between. I was 2nd Amendment activist and USAF Criminal Investigator. There are many in the Military that would not allow themselves to be misused. About 10 percent I think. The rest, through ignorance and self importance would go so far and then question the orders. About half would do all of the damage. I have to say that I know and shoot with many of the Blackwater "Thugs" that were called out here. I understand that SOME of them were misused and abusive. Many opted out and came home. Others refused to perform that function and patrolled for looters like they should have (though to stand by and do nothing is arguably a more grevious offense as it shows you knew better and did nothing). There were 2 other private security companies that I don't know and the rest I am told were National guardsman from different states. Those that I know that were there say no active military were present though I don't know from personal experience. Most of those Blackwater guys that I know are frosty anti-authority gun guys too.
For what it's worth.
Dirigo
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