Comments on Pro Libertate: An Allergy to Freedom (UPDATE, June 1)

I'd politely disagree with your Milton Friedman-es...

2007-06-03T13:14:00.000-06:00

I'd politely disagree with your Milton Friedman-esque view in that slavery isn't a natural thing in the animal world. Even the king of the jungle can be fled or killed without backup being called if you're another animal.

We're not animals, but I appreciate the lesson, nonetheless. Simply "survival of the fittest" is the natural progress of things in the animal world. I suppose you knew that already, though.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain control." - Thomas Jefferson (emphasis mine)

He omits the original state of things here, but it's obviously implied, regardless of the state of things at any moment in time, that people are bent towards slavery. If you look throughout history, people have always been bent towards enslavement, perhaps not directly, and certainly not consciously, but by their desires, actions, and whims they nevertheless support it.

"Men rattle their chains to show that they are free." - old saw

Folk easily mistake genuine slavery for faux freedom.

Most folk are naturally risk-averse, especially to life and limb. But one must be willing to take risks to life and limb to be able to honestly claim they believe in true freeeeeeeeeeeeeedommmmmmmmmmmmm!
Humans have invented the unnecessary evil that is government. It most certainly did not come about naturally.

Sigh...au contraire, government is a necessary "evil" because people are NOT inherently good as the modern mindset seems to like to portray.

Pure nonsense.

God ordained governments among men as well. Are you saying He is wrong for doing so? Again, how many times does it have to be said that government is composed of the SAME people that you mingle with everyday. It's a reflection of the community in question. The people who make up the ranks of government are not aliens from afar, but are the people with whom we associate in some fashion everyday.

Government in the abstract is not the problem. Again, governments were ordained by Jesus Himself. Ergo, people have to be governed totally, either mostly by self-control provided by the Holy Spirit and minimal external government as the Founders had in mind, OR totally by external human authorities who, being mere humans themselves, also are not inherently good.

Hence, this is why as we require more external government, because we're increasingly becoming incapable of self-government (as a snapshot of the post-Christian culture at any given moment will attest), we lose more and more genuine freedom and liberty.

"Freedom and liberty are actually aberrations for ...

2007-06-02T00:44:00.000-06:00

"Freedom and liberty are actually aberrations for the natural man, not slavery."

I'd politely disagree with your Milton Friedman-esque view in that slavery isn't a natural thing in the animal world. Even the king of the jungle can be fled or killed without backup being called if you're another animal.

Humans have invented the unnecessary evil that is government. It most certainly did not come about naturally.

Seems people aren't free to be anything but slaves...

2007-06-01T15:21:00.000-06:00

Seems people aren't free to be anything but slaves.

The way I see it humanoids are not wired for freeeeeeeeeeeeedommmmmmmmmmmmm naturally and, for most of human history even to the present day, slavery of some sort is the status quo. Freedom and liberty are actually aberrations for the natural man, not slavery.

..Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi....

2007-06-01T14:50:00.000-06:00

..Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi...and all from my state of residence...and all with the power to screw up areas of our country ( let's say like Florida) far and beyond California.

That's not a surprise, CK, since most men or women, in power positions are a troublesome lot at best. However, I was speaking of just the basic generic commoner lot and how women within that lot seem to be more statist by nature than the men of that lot.

Of course, this brings up another point about how commoners decide the reality essentially. If you look at San Francisco area, those women you mentioned reflect the majority view (as regards politics, culture, and religion) of the public in that region. Kennedy likewise reflects the majority views of the Massachussetts public.

Otherwise, these folk wouldn't be voted in repeatedly by the people! What else could explain it?

But bear in mind the fact that we have cops who ha...

2007-06-01T14:37:00.000-06:00

But bear in mind the fact that we have cops who have nothing better to do than run teenagers in for fist-fighting, or threatening inoffensive people with felonies because their pet dogs seem a little underweight.

What a sham(e). You know, like Fred said, I also thought those who lived in the West (except Californistan, naturally), especially the Pacific Northwest, were of the "rugged individualist" mold and those who always wanted to keep gubmint and its LE arm to a minimum.

Are a large portion of the local paladins and county mounties in Ontario and Malheur County, respectively, transplants from large regional metro areas? Say, Seattle or Portland?

The reason I ask is because I think our own general dearth of the above harassment citations may in due time be a thing of the past, if we get enough of these NYC transplants, I've seen, into all the local departments here. Gloucester County already has a sizeable number of deputies from the NYC metroplex area already.

Nearly all the training and attitudes they lived and worked by in the garrisoned urban jungle and nearby towns migrate with them down here.

If/when a city becomes a "metropolis" or a bone fide urban jungle, it seems to always become more liberal and progressive. By extension, because of the large population and with enough metro areas or metroplexes in a state or region, they also will end up shaping the politics and culture of the state or region.

This is another phenomenon I wish I had time to study in depth: Why is it that where a large gaggle of folk congregate and reside in high densities, the garrison mentality takes hold? The higher the density, the more statist-minded the folk seem to be.

Jacob, I'm still living in Payette, Idaho, which n...

2007-06-01T13:47:00.000-06:00

Jacob, I'm still living in Payette, Idaho, which nestles up against the Snake River. Ontario, Oregon is just across the river (roughly 2-3 miles from here), and my family frequently makes cross-border runs to shop, since there is no sales tax in the People's Republic of Oregon. Confiscatory property taxes are assessed, and suffocating regulations abound, and the Nanny State commissars won't let you pump your own gas, but there's no sales tax because that would be "regressive."

We'll zip in, shop, and zip right back across the border. And every time we have Oregon in the rear-view I let out a Braveheart-style bellow, "FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEdommmmmmm!" followed immediately by the sheepish qualifying comment, "Well, in relative terms, anyway."

I must have missed something. When did you move t...

2007-06-01T12:49:00.000-06:00

I must have missed something. When did you move to Oregon? I thought you were in Idaho. Or Utah. Or are you on the border?

I'm confused.

I got a kick out of a cop blatantly running a red ...

2007-06-01T09:41:00.000-06:00

I got a kick out of a cop blatantly running a red light at 45mph (approx) at a busy local intersection the other day.

Setting a good example for us when they're not tasering us for minor infractions.

Is that Sunriver rep for real? I mean, what was s...

2007-06-01T09:12:00.000-06:00

Is that Sunriver rep for real? I mean, what was so wrong about things that he had to pull this stunt? It seems that the citizens should be hammering to remove him just as they were declawing their cops. Seems people aren't free to be anything but slaves.

Fred -- I sure wish I had the means to capitalize ...

2007-06-01T06:48:00.000-06:00

Fred -- I sure wish I had the means to capitalize a venture bearing the artfully witty name you've conjured up! Thanks for the six month head start.

D.D. beat me to it.......The thought of someone be...

2007-06-01T00:48:00.000-06:00

D.D. beat me to it.......

The thought of someone being compensated by the tax payers to stalk parking lots while having the nads to open its mouth to release such an admonition is- well, I thought it was funny for about a half second.

Here I thought the fuzz way out West were the more old fashioned types, i.e. don't call unless you have a REAL problem.

Perhaps a Donut shop - or better yet - a Pro LiberLatte Coffee shop would be profitable in your neck of the woods. I'll give you six six months to move on it. Otherwise I'll register the name. This type of place would keep the bored parasites within sight (and within arm's reach) so they can be prevented from inflictng their good deeds on the citizenry.

You wouldn't see the REAL men very often sitting around sucking up free coffee in this type of place becuase they would be out looking for the crooks. Although they might stop in for a polite word or two, and insist on paying for their drinks.

Luckily, I'm an Oregon resident. I've written my s...

2007-05-31T23:34:00.000-06:00

Luckily, I'm an Oregon resident. I've written my state rep to ask him to vote no on this. I also implored him to work to get other reps to vote no. I recommend that any other OR residents reading do the same.

You can do so here:

http://www.leg.state.or.us/writelegsltr/

DD,Tyranny of the petticoat...I got three names fo...

2007-05-31T22:53:00.000-06:00

DD,

Tyranny of the petticoat...I got three names for you...Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi...and all from my state of residence...and all with the power to screw up areas of our country ( let's say like Florida) far and beyond California. Adams nailed this one on the head two centuries ago and yet most folks nowadays are oblivious to his observation. Did we all check our huevos at the door in order to allow these socialist-fascists in dresses (would that include Barney Frank too?) get away with all of the feel-good nanny laws that we're currently stuck with? BTW, I'm not a misogynist, I just don't care much for the three aforementioned individuals and their actions very much. Why do we put up with this?

D.D. -- Incomprehensible as it may seem, there are...

2007-05-31T19:22:00.000-06:00

D.D. -- Incomprehensible as it may seem, there are police in this part of the country who occasionally loiter outside Wal-Mart and other big box stores, lurking in the shadows like child molesters, waiting to snag people who leave the parking lot unbuckled. Ontario, Oregon is notorious for this kind of lurk-and-cite "law enforcement."

But bear in mind the fact that we have cops who have nothing better to do than run teenagers in for fist-fighting, or threatening inoffensive people with felonies because their pet dogs seem a little underweight.

And no, there ain't no donut shops 'round here, neither. I really should look into opening one, perhaps.

Good grief, Will. I had to laugh when I read it. Y...

2007-05-31T19:15:00.000-06:00

Good grief, Will. I had to laugh when I read it. You mean you got coppers, who have nothing better to do than sitting all around parking lots in your neck o' the woods, squeakin' aloud about bucklin' up!?

Well, on second thought, I guess since there's only minuscule real crime in those remote areas and "post office"/resort towns, the coppers perhaps have nothing better to do?

Damn, don't you folk out West have any donut shops in the vicinity ;)? Perhaps, you need MORE of those out in those parts than we have and we have aplenty.

Yes, like virtually everywhere else, our coppers will ticket ya also for not buckling up and other minor infractions, but for the most part, they just don't loiter around private property searching for easy ticket fodder as you describe either.

It was interesting that Susan Lawson said everything is quite quaintly in the Sunriver area and "not any rampant crime," yet she supports the bill (HB 3445 you spoke of) before the Oregon legislature.

Huh? It's this kind of broken brain activity with folk who don't consider themselves retarded, of course, that is so troubling for the rest of us.

I know not ALL women are safety and security maniacs, men loathers, and government lovers; there's exceptions to every generalization. Even so, are women in general, as opposed to men in general, just more tyrannical-minded by nature? Perhaps, John Adams knew what he was talkin' about when he mentioned "tyranny of the petticoat" in conversations with his wife.

Anyway, whatever the reason for the incomprehensible thinking of Mrs. Lawson, and even though she's not a generic commoner so to speak, this thinking is nevertheless quite illustrative also of the same kind of oxymoronic mindset ingrained in the public at large as well.