Comments on Pro Libertate: Restoring the Right to Resist (UPDATED)

Henry Magee might have some useful advice to offer...

2014-03-28T23:00:33.019-06:00

Henry Magee might have some useful advice to offer regarding that question: http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2014/02/henry-magee-john-quinn-and-right-of.html

Only problem, no matter how unlawful the arrest, o...

2014-03-28T22:53:42.582-06:00

Only problem, no matter how unlawful the arrest, or how excessive the force, if you've just shot a police officer dead who exactly do you call?

All commenter's thus far are dancing around th...

2010-03-27T10:34:45.746-06:00

All commenter's thus far are dancing around the only viable solution: If we the People use deadly force against these unlawful aggressors who would kill us if given even slight provocation, they would all think twice before murdering or assaulting a citizen. Until we are willing to possibly die to protect and defend Liberty, we will continue to lose it incrementally.

2009-11-07T13:23:58.426-07:00

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Very concise and constructed. It is scary thinking...

2009-11-07T13:23:15.266-07:00

Very concise and constructed. It is scary thinking of how in control the government is. Their taking away our freedoms and involving their selves with our health care and medical being. Just the fact that certain drugs are illegal and trans fat has become regulated is a testament of the government’s control of our OWN bodies! They have no right to tell us what one can or can't put in his head or stomach.

I have met one or two police officers (and have heard stories) who were really "friendly" about a situation. Honestly, i know you can't judge a whole group of people by a stereotype, but there are truths in stereotypes, especially when it comes to a law-enforcing-ideology. I will never feel comfortable around a police officer, in uniform or not. It’s a matter of principle, these officers are pledging themselves to a fucked up system. They can't change it at all, and what appears to be a vocation of morality resolves to seer egotism.

Great post, thanks for exposing the continuing and...

2009-09-23T06:28:50.163-06:00

Great post, thanks for exposing the continuing and increasing corruption that hides behind the misleading moniker of "law enforcement."

However, this is also very dangerous information. The members of "gangsta blue" respond vigorously to the call of "Officer down!", and the responsible party most frequently succumbs to an aggravated case of lead poisoning as a result.

What needs to be done is to craft a set of guidelines, to be enacted into law, that enumerates exactly what rights the injured party has in such a situation, as well as outlines exactly what measures are to be taken against the aggressors--including anyone who assists the aggressors, up to and including any superior officers who invariably make the claim that they were "following proper procedures"--in such a situation. It must be codified that these aggressors lose ALL protections their badges traditionally give them, and ensure that they are prosecuted as any other illegal aggressor. And that anyone, anyone "aiding and abetting" these criminals in the commission of a crime will be prosecuted at the same level.

A cop's nightmare is to be placed in a nice, secluded jail cell with some of the people they have placed in the same situation. We need to change this nightmare into a reality before the criminals in blue will begin to think twice about committing illegal acts. As things stand now, they know they will be protected at every level, with at most a couple of weeks of paid or unpaid vacation.

Please note, I am not attacking all cops. In spite of public opinion, there are many good policemen and women on the forces. But there are very many criminals wearing the blue-suits as well, and those need to be removed, prosecuted, and incarcerated.

My name is ANdrew Ian Murphy and I just want to sa...

2009-09-22T17:20:08.386-06:00

My name is ANdrew Ian Murphy and I just want to say that this matter is never one of crime control or justice...it is one of a single individual seeking to dominate another individual by force.

All police officers I have ever met seem inclined to this...some perhaps more than others.

Citizens confronting the prospect of an illegal ar...

2009-09-22T14:50:07.018-06:00

Citizens confronting the prospect of an illegal arrest should be governed by the Just War test of proportionality -- that is, would forceful resistance result in more harm than submission? And the same consideration should define the actions of third parties thinking of intervening to prevent an abuse of police authority.

Apart from the fact that most people have never even heard of the Just War test of proportionality (although it is not at all a difficult concept to understand), even for people who are well versed in such matters and who have given this plenty of forethought may find it extremely difficult to implement in real time.

I'm not saying the advice is bad; I'm just bemoaning the fact that once these nightmare situations start to unfold, you're pretty much damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I guess this is part of what it means to live in a society under God's judgment.

Have any analytical studies been done of these sorts of situations to try to glean hints as to how ordinary people can "police-proof" their lives and minimize the possibility that they will find themselves caught up in such confrontations?

I wonder where all the police type commentators ar...

2009-07-30T04:29:38.532-06:00

I wonder where all the police type commentators are? You know the type. They always show up in any news story that's the least bit critical of the police. Commenting that "it's for your own good" and whatnot. Are they moderated out of the comments here or just unwilling to debate Grigg? Either way, Great Job, Masterful!

I strongly agree with Bob's statement above. We n...

2008-08-18T15:01:00.000-06:00

I strongly agree with Bob's statement above. We need to expose every one of them. When they start to see their names, addresses, pictures and other personal details posted online, they might start to think about their thuggish behavior. When I read stories about these things, I always want to know the names of the offenders. The pop media is quick to report the names of the victims of the Blue Light Gang. The gang members should be made public.

Begging those in the legislatures to change the laws won't be enough. And that is assuming that does anything. The most important thing is to educate the public that resisting thugs is completely justified, regardless of who their employer is or what fancy costume they have on.

Wow! Exceptional post!I shudder at the thought th...

2008-04-02T14:09:00.000-06:00

Wow! Exceptional post!

I shudder at the thought that I could be in bed asleep and have the storm troops burst through my front door -- and I'm the criminal if I try to defend myself against this invasion.

Thanks for bringing this to the attention of more people through this well-written and thoughtful piece.

Will,I agree completely! It's horrendous the thing...

2008-03-31T15:46:00.000-06:00

Will,
I agree completely! It's horrendous the things the police can do to innocent people who aren't even violating one of the State's many draconian laws with complete impunity.

I'd be interested to hear what you think of Disorderly Conduct/Disturbing the Peace (same law, different name depending on the particular state) statutes. They permit the police to arrest anyone at any place or time for doing anything the police don't like.

There are similar issues with laws against public intoxication. The officier only has to "believe the individual poses a danger to himself or others" in many states.

Either of which can be manipulated to mean just about anything.

I think a good step is to place inconspicuous vide...

2008-02-19T22:26:00.000-07:00

I think a good step is to place inconspicuous video cameras around one's house and vehicle that can be activated by remote control or a car alarm. It would also be good to carry MP3 players with mikes, or inconspicuous surveillance equipment to document abuses of law enforcement. Rather than send blatant traffic violations into the criminal justice system, send it to insurance company fraud departments. Let the pigs on their lonesome pony up extra for insurance.

Keep up the good work exposing the police state!!!...

2008-02-19T18:17:00.000-07:00

Keep up the good work exposing the police state!!!

That's an excellent blog and an excellent article....

2008-02-19T18:11:00.000-07:00

That's an excellent blog and an excellent article. On my blog I frequently criticize the blue gun thugs for the crimes of assault, murder, extortion, robbery, and all manner of illegal acts.

One minor request. The names of the murderous criminals in blue suits need to be published. Let their names and home addresses become public domain.

Blessings

Bob

At one point in Illuminatus!, Hagbard Celine outli...

2008-02-19T12:16:00.000-07:00

At one point in Illuminatus!, Hagbard Celine outlines the future of the police state and lists a long series of changes in the law that will take the country down the path of totalitarianism.

The list included no-knock warrants, as well as a legal doctrine on the unlawfulness of "resisting even unlawful arrest." So far as I know, every single item in his dystopian list has come true.

I support 'not voting', -when the choices are not ...

2008-02-19T09:35:00.000-07:00

I support 'not voting', -when the choices are not to your liking. Excellent post by 'anonymous'.

Look at what the media does to 'doctor' elections, (Doctor Ron Paul, or old Howard Dean, for example)...

Behind the Iron Curtain, the Soviet's would engineer elections only 'govt. friendly' candidates were on the ballots.
-Then try to force people to vote to try to justify the regime. (pay them or fire them)

People's only choice left, was to 'vote with their feet',
-and flee to other places.

Or resist, -and not vote.

As the voting public's participation dwindled, from 90%, to 70, to 50 to <30%, -it became very embarrassing for the ruling political parties.

The refusal to vote showed the public's dissatisfaction with the government, when all other types of resistance were illegalized or punished severely.

It may be the last and most valuable refuge of a powerless people, refuse to vote, or flee. (vote with your feet).

Once again,
Thank you Will!
for your God-given talent,
endless perseverance,
and excellent service to mankind.
with much admiration! :)

50 hit and 8 dead in Maryland as white Crown Vic p...

2008-02-19T08:59:00.000-07:00

50 hit and 8 dead in Maryland as white Crown Vic plows through crowd.

Police today confirmed, that the Crown Vic reportedly speeding at night without any lights on that hit 50 and killed 8, is a

'police interceptor'.

http://washingtontimes.com/article/20080219/METRO/715222584/1004

Thanks for the great work Will!

Great work as always.It is interesting that you us...

2008-02-19T05:23:00.000-07:00

Great work as always.

It is interesting that you use this picture of Ray Nagin from right before the NBA All-Star game. In this picture he looks somewhat like Michael Jordan.

Apologies to His Airness.

"The six police officers who invaded Pedro’s home ...

2008-02-18T11:20:00.000-07:00

"The six police officers who invaded Pedro’s home and shot him to death without legal cause or warrant were fired from the police force. Only one of them faced a criminal charge of simple trespassing, and he was acquitted."

Simple trespassing? Sometimes I have to laugh out loud at the joke known as 'the rule of law.' If ordinary citizens got such 'professional courtesy' from the conviction machine, O.J. Simpson would have been tried for littering, not for murder.

A statutory right to resist is all well and good. But in Pedro's case, as in so many others, it was the federal War on Drugs -- declared by Richard Nixon in 1970 -- which battered down the door and the rule of law.

Two roads diverge: you can have constitutional liberty, or you can have a war on drugs, but you can't have both. The U.S. fedgov has decisively chosen to trash the former and amp up the latter. No freedom, no justice.

Readers: Scratch the "is wrong" from the sentence ...

2008-02-17T13:33:00.000-07:00

Readers: Scratch the "is wrong" from the sentence beginning with "It is wrong." Ah, the joys of failing to proofread.

-Sans Authoritas

Last anonymous, You're right. Merely starving the ...

2008-02-17T11:17:00.000-07:00

Last anonymous,

You're right. Merely starving the beast is impossible.

You want to peacefully eliminate Leviathan?

Stop voting, and get other people to do likewise.

It is wrong to believe that anyone has a "right" to use violence or the threat thereof to force other people to monetarily fund the policies they would like to see implemented is wrong. Reduced to its purest form, that is exactly what voting for a public official is. Taxation is the means every elected person uses to accomplish his ends.

"Should any service be provided at the end of a gun?" That is the one simple question asked by this handy political quiz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpijeYpd6xo&feature=related

So, if you'd ever like to live in freedom, or if you'd like your children to, stop voting, and convince others to do the same.

When you get 5% of a population to try to force 95% of a population to subsidize the things they want, watch what happens. But only if the 95% is enlightened enough.

You will never have freedom if you keep on voting people into office. Electing a new, "virtuous" kommandant to run a death camp will not change the fact that the institution is, in fact, a death camp.

Likewise, voting someone into government will not change government to not be A) Something that usurps power for itself B) Kills people and C) Forces other people to subsidize its usurpation of power and killing people. It's a great example of a self-perpetuating, self-contained system. Kind of like Auchwitz was intended to have been. Then people woke up.

Coercively-funded government is a parasite on the lives of moral, peaceful, and productive individuals. Don't vote. It only encourages the parasite.

-Sans Authoritas

Rep. Itse from NH might support something like thi...

2008-02-17T03:00:00.000-07:00

Rep. Itse from NH might support something like this.

Another great column exposing the abuses of our Le...

2008-02-16T09:04:00.000-07:00

Another great column exposing the abuses of our Leviathan police state.

While I think these articles serve a useful purpose in exposing these abuses, for myself I constantly come away with the question "so what do we do to stop it?" We know the system is corrupt top to bottom so solutions within the system are futile at best even when they occasionally the yield some small positive result.

My libertarian leanings lead me to believe that the best solution would be to starve the beast financially, but the beast stands between employers and employees taking their cut of our paychecks first - before our families or our personal needs are even met. This eliminates the possibility of simply starving them financially - which would be a peaceful mechanism, maybe the only one available to us.

While many have looked poorly on the case of Mr. Thornton, the subject of an earlier article, I'm beginning to think men like Mr. Thornton do us all a great service. Unfortunately his tactics leave us with one less person willing to stand up and say No More. And I have no sympathy for the parasites he disposed of - those who live at the tax trough deserve none from "The Decider" on down to the local yocal.

The problem is clear, the solution less so; what solutions do we have available to us? How do we fight back and turn the tide towards a more sane society - short of finding these parasites and eliminating them to the point the system no longer functions? That is a discussion I would like to see.

Good idea. I will bring up the idea of passing a "...

2008-02-16T06:13:00.000-07:00

Good idea. I will bring up the idea of passing a "right to resist unlawful arrest" with a good friend of mine who is in the NH state legislature. He being a paleo libertarian/right Republican will readily warm to the idea.

Keep up the good work. You are truly doing the Lords work.