tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post7804912930713999923..comments2017-04-13T04:47:21.148-06:00Comments on Pro Libertate: One Giant RezWilliam N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-3558696961275628362013-12-29T16:00:59.177-07:002013-12-29T16:00:59.177-07:00Without a proper church and state relation; the in...Without a proper church and state relation; the indians Christening and civilizing went awry--and to the Catholics. Those indians that left tribe and chief for Christ's liberty, or even for a secular individual autonomy are seldom recognized. I recognize you oh fallen; although the only ones standing.Mr. Mcgranorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12851136550476241757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-70309470835816655522010-12-23T05:30:31.699-07:002010-12-23T05:30:31.699-07:00Anonymous of January 7, 2009 8:09 PM asked "B...Anonymous of January 7, 2009 8:09 PM asked "But I humbly ask you, because I really don't know. If you're even opposed to low, INdirect taxes, how can even a small, decentralized limited government operate without any source of revenue?"<br /><br />Leaving aside the question of whether a government like that would stay like that, or would choose to forego taxes, as a matter of fact it wouldn't actually need taxes for revenues; it could run off the revenues from a portfolio of suitable assets (a "domain"), although getting that together in the first place might also involve fraud or force (it would only need fraud to keep the domain from decaying over time, if printing fiat money always went to rebuilding the domain in a way rather like a "sinking fund"). This is pretty much how the Dutch ran the East Indies under their 19th century "Culture System", though they used taxes and legal work requirements too.P.M.Lawrencehttp://users.beagle.com.au/peterlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-25460659281865627372009-07-11T20:37:14.176-06:002009-07-11T20:37:14.176-06:00I'm not ignorant, I'm not blind or naive, ...I'm not ignorant, I'm not blind or naive, I'm not a cog of the machine. I read plenty, I'm what I suppose one would call "educated," I think about the world, I've got opinions formed of experience and even from a bit of knowledge here and there.<br /><br />And...I can't think of a single decision or action by the government that has had any meaningful impact on my life, good, bad, or indifferent. Emphasis on the word "meaningful."<br /><br />There's a whole contingent out there that seems to think if it weren't for the government and other institutions, public or private, we would all be self-actualized millionaires living in a New Eden, every man a strong, noble Zarathustra, a society in perfect, natural harmony.<br /><br />Nope. It's all about how you relate to the person in front of you, yourself, and your higher power if you have one. That's the only source of happiness, period. The outside stuff doesn't amount to jack.<br /><br />There has not been an inch of moral change in the human race since paleolithic days. We're both angel and devil, every one of us. A totalitarian state or a libertarian paradise, the same evils and the same goodnesses would still be in play.<br /><br />Happiness is an inside job, period. Quit projecting your unresolved issues on to outside bogeymen. Join the rest of us poor slobs here in the human race. You've got an easy, easy life, and so do I. Practice some gratitude, count your blessings, get off the high horse, start living.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-66027155220179420852009-01-09T06:30:00.000-07:002009-01-09T06:30:00.000-07:00Anonymous @7:42, Does the end justify the means?Wh...Anonymous @7:42, <BR/><BR/>Does the end justify the means?<BR/><BR/>Where does it say God instituted a coercive, taxation-based government? <BR/><BR/>I saw where He instituted some plagues, but He never said they were good, or that we should create them ourselves. <BR/><BR/>Are you saying God instituted a system whereby innocent men have guns put to their heads? <BR/><BR/>I have several links about Christian and Biblical anarchism I'd love to email you. Your heart is in the right place, and your mind is following close behind.<BR/><BR/> -Sans AuthoritasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-54821795426314555412009-01-08T20:42:00.000-07:002009-01-08T20:42:00.000-07:00Sans A.Okay.I love what you are saying, BUT where ...Sans A.<BR/><BR/>Okay.<BR/>I love what you are saying, BUT where does the revenue -however small to run a small, decentralized limited government- come from? Even a small government needs some funds for its basic operations. Are the people who work for a small, limited government supposed to work for free?<BR/><BR/>To be quite honest with you, my heart actually chooses anarchy, but my mind soberly reminds me that God instituted small, limited government -not the depraved, distorted outgrowth of government which morphs into The State.<BR/><BR/>So, how can zero revenue inlays run even a small, limited government? <BR/><BR/>Help me with this, brother.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-3840296914601811662009-01-08T15:20:00.000-07:002009-01-08T15:20:00.000-07:00Anonymous @7:09 wrote: "I absolutely concur with y...Anonymous @7:09 wrote: <BR/><BR/>"I absolutely concur with your point that violence can never ever become an option that any proper government can use to extract revenue, but doesn't an indirect tax such as uniformly low import duties avoid this problem?"<BR/><BR/><BR/>Anonymous @7:09, <BR/><BR/>If you elect not to pay an import (or any tax,) what do the individuals in the State do, as a matter of policy? They threaten you, and if you do not succumb, they confiscate your money, and if that proves impossible, they put you in prison. If you dare resist, they kill you. Violence is behind all taxation. Taxation is an initiation of violence. As a libertarian, you've no doubt heard of the non-aggression principle: that no man has the right to initiate violence or fraud against another person. <BR/><BR/>What is taxation but initiating violence? <BR/><BR/> -Sans AuthoritasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-66655205516094389702009-01-07T20:14:00.000-07:002009-01-07T20:14:00.000-07:00P.S.I also wouldn't mind having my other libertari...P.S.<BR/>I also wouldn't mind having my other libertarian brother Will Grigg address the issue of taxation in a future essay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-18707481562943055122009-01-07T20:09:00.000-07:002009-01-07T20:09:00.000-07:00Sans A.I don't think we really disagree with each ...Sans A.<BR/>I don't think we really disagree with each other.<BR/><BR/>Yes, I'm entirely familiar with 1 Samuel 8. I use this example a lot to effectively illustrate to my fellow evangelical Christians that God desires small, decentralized limited government. And my fellow Christians receive this illustration extremely well. <BR/>(Their even questioning the GOP now. So we are making some progess.)<BR/> <BR/>Will Grigg and I have even discussed that passage. You are correct. God did not desire for the Israelites to change their divinely appointed limited government for an authoritarian monarchy. They demanded an earthly king like the other nations, and so He allowed them to follow their own hearts instead of His wise counsel. (Jeremiah 17:9)<BR/><BR/>But I humbly ask you, because I really don't know. If you're even opposed to low, INdirect taxes, how can even a small, decentralized limited government operate without any source of revenue? I absolutely concur with your point that violence can never ever become an option that any proper government can use to extract revenue, but doesn't an indirect tax such as uniformly low import duties avoid this problem? I always read your comments, and I find myself agreeing with you, a fellow Christian libertarian, the vast majority of the time except on this one issue of taxation where you propose zero taxes, and I propose that an extremely low indirect tax is permissible for the operation of a small limited government. In all honesty, I just don't know how even a small, limited government can operate without some kind of revenue base which I believe could be collected non-violently through indirect taxes.<BR/><BR/>If you could answer this for me I would most appreciate it. I'm completely open to changing my mind on this matter if you can address the issue of how and where even a minarchist-styled, small government can acquire at least a minimal amount of revenue for its operations. Sorry for my redundancy. <BR/><BR/>Thank you my brother. <BR/><BR/>(I admit I am still growing in my paleo-libertarianism.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-42503141567280199732009-01-07T18:56:00.000-07:002009-01-07T18:56:00.000-07:00Anonymous @7:03,I agree with you that God can use ...Anonymous @7:03,<BR/><BR/>I agree with you that God can use men's evil acts to bring about good. There's no doubt. <BR/><BR/>I agree that God is all right with human government, but not the State. However, I would go so far as to define a State as <I>any</I> taxation/violence based government, especially when it demands a monopoly on violence. I do not think God says men have the right to create a system whereby men initiate violence against each other (pay taxes or you are imprisoned/killed.) <BR/><BR/>Read 1 Samuel 8, and you'll see that while God allowed it, he was angry when Israel wanted a king. He warned them what kings/states were all about. <BR/><BR/>And lastly, I do not believe in such a thing as a limited government that has the power to tax. That's like saying a leech is limited by how much blood it can suck up before it either pops or is burned off by its host. <BR/><BR/> -Sans AuthoritasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-22966902516167235072009-01-07T08:03:00.000-07:002009-01-07T08:03:00.000-07:00Of course I agree with you that God doesn't want a...Of course I agree with you that God doesn't want any nation-state to wantonly kill people, whether its own citizens or foreigners. God can't lie; He can't change His Mind, and He certainly cannot commit evil acts. There is, of course, a Just War criteria which permits nations to engage in defensive wars but only for actual self defense, and I do believe that God authorized human government (not the monstrosity that Albert Jay Nock called The State) and intended for it to be extremely limited, and that this limited government would be supported by low, indirect taxes. I also despise The State. However, the evil we confront isn't just embodied in The State, it's also in each and every one of us. We are all depraved, morally imperfect human beings who need redemption. <BR/><BR/>God recorded His promises throughout the O.T. that He would restore the nation-state of Israel for His name's sake via a direct act of His will according to His eschatological purposes to set the stage for the Messiah's return. This second return of the Jewish people to ancient Judaea is recorded in numerous passages throughout Isaiah, Jeremiah, the Torah, Ezekiel, Zechariah, Amos and Hosea to name a few. The first return of Jewish exiles was authorized under the reign of Cyrus, the Persian-Mede emperor. The second and final return of the Jewish people to Palestine, after a two thousand year diaspora, was initiated in 1948.<BR/> <BR/><BR/>God restored Israel, but He<BR/>is not responsible for the evil free choices or acts of fallible Israeli leaders. God desires all political leaders to choose righteousness, just like He would desire all other men, great and small, to choose good over evil. But when men choose evil, our infinitely Wise God can still use the evil acts of men for some unbeknownst good purpose that we may not yet foresee. God infallibly foreknows the future free choices of all men, so He is never surprised by our evil choices and is quite capable of using our evil acts and decisions for some greater good that we cannot comprehend, even though He didn't desire for us to make the evil choice in the first place. If God prevented our exposure to evil how could we ever learn courage? So God can certainly use the evil choices of some men to teach other men the virtues of standing up to wickedness and exhibiting the courage to face it. God can use the evil act of one man to embolden and strengthen another man whose character God is developing. One biblical example where God used the evil actions of an evil ruler for His good purposes is recorded in the book of Exodus. God foreknew that the more He expressed His will and power toward the stubborn and wicked Pharoah, the more the Pharoah's hatred of and resistance to God would increase, but while God was hardening an evil Pharoah's heart, He was melting the hearts of His people whom He was saving from bondage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-38376593355098947512009-01-06T18:36:00.000-07:002009-01-06T18:36:00.000-07:00Anonymous @2:57, God can only directly will good, ...Anonymous @2:57, <BR/><BR/>God can only directly will good, not evil. It is up to us to fight the conditional evil of the good he wills. His name is glorified by people recognizing evil for what it is and choosing the good. <BR/><BR/>If you are saying, "God wants a state that taxes and kills people," I think you are off base. What I think you are saying, correctly, is that "God allows the state that taxes and kills, while willing that his people may be purified and recognize that a state that taxes and kills people is immoral." <BR/><BR/> -Sans AuthoritasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-27795160644150265072009-01-06T15:57:00.000-07:002009-01-06T15:57:00.000-07:00I argued that God did will, not merely permit, the...I argued that God did will, not merely permit, the creation of Israel for His purposes and promises, primarily for His name's sake, as a myriad of O.T. passages attest. (I cited just a few passages in Ezekiel 36:22 and Isaiah 11:11-12.) <BR/><BR/>I do believe that evil human players were used by God -just as God had used Pharoah for His earlier purposes- to create Israel. The UN, a creation of the nefarious Anglo-American power elite, partitioned Palestine (ancient Judea, Samaria and Galilee) for both an Arab and Jewish state. After the Roman enforced second century diaspora, a remnant of small Jewish communities remained in Palestine. During the final days of the Ottoman empire, Palestine remained a sparsely populated region with small Jewish and Arab communities. By the time of the UN partition, both Arab and Jewish populations had already swollen to much larger demographics. As I recall, The nascent Jewish leadership agreed to the 1948partition whereas the Arab/Palestinian Muslim leadership and surrounding Arab nations did not.<BR/><BR/>The discussion over God's sovereignty and human free will is often debated in Christian circles. The two prominent positions are Calvinism (Jean Cauvin/John Calvin founder) and Arminianism (Jacobus Arminius/Jacob Harmenszoon founder). An emerging view named after Luis De Molina is called Molinism/Middle Knowledge and is gaining popularity in theological circles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-13088600497619582102009-01-06T10:36:00.000-07:002009-01-06T10:36:00.000-07:00Anonymous @ 7:22, There is an important difference...Anonymous @ 7:22, <BR/><BR/>There is an important difference between that which God allows, and that which God wills. If God allowed the state of Israel, just as he allowed George Bush, Stalin and Hitler to rise to power, it does not mean that he willed any of it to happen. God ordains things, and he permits things. We must not confuse the two. <BR/><BR/>God has been known to send and allow plagues upon sinners and saints alike. Some of those plagues wore crowns. The fact that God allows something evil to happen is not to say that the evil is good, desirable, or that the evil should not be striven against.<BR/><BR/> -Sans AuthoritasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-18687873586877863942009-01-06T09:02:00.000-07:002009-01-06T09:02:00.000-07:00Anon 7:22 - Thank you for the clarification. I ap...Anon 7:22 - Thank you for the clarification. I apologize if my post seemed to imply that ALL evangelicals are statist, an assumption that is clearly contrary to the libertarian core value of recognizing the individual rather than the collective. <BR/><BR/>You've probably noted from the general tone of my posts a certain sense of resignation to the idea that the cultural and moral rot permeating Western Civilization in general and American civilization in particular is now so pervasive and advanced as to have contaminated even the last bastion of human decency, namely the Christian Church (the one difference between the Roman Empire in its terminal stages and contemporary America is that the Roman Empire had become Christianized at the time of its collapse, whereas America seems to be reverting back to pre-Christian barbarism at the onset of its death throes). I am grateful to you and the other regular posters to this blog (not to mention its owner himself) for reminding me that there is still hope.liberranterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00555275410576294081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-12707278659906825832009-01-05T20:29:00.000-07:002009-01-05T20:29:00.000-07:00This was an absolutely powerful and insightful ess...This was an absolutely powerful and insightful essay. Too, it's a reminder that the History Books are written by the victor and not the vanquished.<BR/>Its a gross understatement to call our nation's treatment of the native North American tragic. We can only beg the Almighty's mercy as we repent and seek justice for the oppressed.<BR/><BR/>One Christian Libertarian's two cents....Andyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03516444685469895837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-71549783738431310972009-01-05T20:22:00.000-07:002009-01-05T20:22:00.000-07:00Au contraire, Liberranter, Genuine Christians do n...Au contraire, Liberranter, <BR/>Genuine Christians do need reminding just as the Apostle John admonished his fellow believers at the end of his first epistle saying "Little children, guard yourselves from IDOLS."<BR/><BR/>And not all evangelical Christians have swallowed the koolaid of statism and party politics. I'm such an example, for I am an evangelical Christian AND a paleo-libertarian. I enjoy reading Murray Rothbard just as much as I enjoy reading William Lane Craig. My evangelical Christian pastor endorsed Ron Paul as well as I. We are a minority, but we're working hard to rid our community of statist and jingoist assumptions and political idolatry. <BR/><BR/>And yes Israel is led by evil leaders, but so is every other nation-state. What Israel is doing now in Gaza is at best overkill and at worst democide. Christian believers can cite Ezekiel 36:22 as a template for our basic Christian understanding regarding Israel. In that passage, God states that He causes the second Jewish return (Isaiah 11:11-12) to their ancient homeland but that the Jewish people didn't earn it; He does it solely for His holy name's sake. With that understanding, I know Israel is far from moral perfection -as is every other nation- and should not be above moral criticism. But as a evangelical Christian, I believe the scriptures are true and divinely inspired, so if God restored political Israel who am I to say that God was wrong? And so I have no problem with the existence of a Jewish state. But I do understand your disagreement with my position if you're a non-Christian, a Roman Catholic or Byzantine Orthodox or an amillennialist.(BTW, I am not a dispensationalist; I'm an historic premillennialist.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-87491787743021769462009-01-05T19:04:00.000-07:002009-01-05T19:04:00.000-07:00Anonymous #1,This Native American movie was alread...Anonymous #1,<BR/><BR/>This Native American movie was already made, in 1970. It starred Dustin Hoffman and was titled "Little Big Man." You can watch it online. It was one of the most devastating movies I have ever seen - for years afterwards remembering that movie brought a knot to my stomach and a pain to my heart. As also does this awful narrative by Mr. Grigg.<BR/><BR/>Dear Will,<BR/><BR/>You have chosen to call the State "Leviathan," the ravenous sea monster, no doubt after Thomas Hobbes' 1651 book of the same name. However, Hobbes was in FAVOR of the monolithic state and of monarchical dictatorship.<BR/><BR/>I like the term "The Nosferatu" for the oligarchs, from the 1922 German film of the same name. The state and its minions are blood-sucking vampires, preying upon the very life-spirit of the living, and turning them into pale shadows and zombies. This vampire state is impossible to kill, and lives under the soil like a horde of creeping worms, reposing in a coffin which is the abode of death, hidden away from the sunshine and the light of day, creeping voraciously about in the shadows of the night and seeking living flesh and blood to devour.<BR/><BR/>This pretty much describes all government, from my local city council to my State government to the horrid and stinking putrescence that sits in Washington atop Capitol Hill, truly, "like unto a whited sepulchre which outwardly is fair to behold, but within is full of dead men's bones."<BR/><BR/>It seems that it has always been so, and will always be so, down through the centuries and across all continents: Ariel Sharon. Menachem Begin. Robert Mugabe. Sani Abacha. Mao. Kim Jong Il. Stalin. Pol Pot.<BR/><BR/>Moreover, all those men referenced above pursued and still pursue their evil careers, unmolested by those who call themselves our leaders and call upon us to be docile and good. All of those men died or will die peacefully in their beds. Why? Because all governments around the world, however evil, recognize in each other fellow criminals. Far be it from any of them to actually do anything to stop the bloodsucking - that would expose them as the same breed of monster.<BR/><BR/>Sincerely,<BR/>Lemuel Gulliver.<BR/><BR/>===================================<BR/>PS: I'm not finished. This exchange is asinine:<BR/><BR/>(Quote) "Anonymous @ 8:31 AM said: For decades now IDF has targeted CHILDREN, they lure them out then snipers take them out, almost as a sport."<BR/><BR/>(So-called rebuttal) "Let's see some objective reference, some proof. Otherwise, you destroy your own credibility and we can discard the rest of what you wrote as propaganda. If your cause is just, you don't need to lie or fabricate. The pro-Hamas side has no credibility because they lie."<BR/><BR/>Sir, I challenge you to produce one iota of proof that the so-called Holocaust happened. Where are the orders from Hitler? Where are the subordinate orders to the thousands who carried out those orders? The Third Reich was meticulous about keeping written records. Why is there NOWHERE the smallest scrap of paper with such an order? Where are the gas chambers? (Except for those "rebuilt" post-WWII.) Where are the bodies? What source of fuel was used to cremate 6 million people, (It takes an hour or more to dispose of one body - go visit any crematorium for proof - it would have taken decades to cremate 6 million people) in the midst of a war in which every drop of gasoline and ounce of coal was precious? All you have is a cacophony of accusations from the race which has plundered and extorted money from the rest of mankind for 3,500 years.<BR/><BR/>Does this mean that the Holocaust never happened? To use your criteria of "proof," it would seem absolutely that it did not. I would say to you, sir, SHOW ME. Or else, you too are a barefaced liar.<BR/><BR/>However, I believe the disappearance into thin air of millions of people requires no proof. Whether it was two million, or three million, or six million, is not relevant - millions vanished without a trace. No "proof" of that is needed.<BR/><BR/>I believe the dead children of Gaza with bullets in their backs require no proof. I believe the Israeli sound trucks taunting the children in Arabic: "Dogs of Gaza! Where were your mothers last night? Gaza pigs! Where are you brave sons of Mohammed? Come out and let us see you!" and then, when the children emerge to throw stones, picking them off like fish in a barrel - yes, indeed, that has been documented by non-Arab Western journalists. You may read it in Harper's Magazine. A fairly reputable journal. <BR/><BR/>A bullet in the back of a child requires no "proof."<BR/><BR/>Sir: Go take your pompous hair-splitting nonsense and insert it where it hurts the most.<BR/><BR/>Yours in Christ,<BR/>Lemuel Gulliver.Lemuel Gullivernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-43134027648455040592009-01-05T16:37:00.000-07:002009-01-05T16:37:00.000-07:00Let's see some objective reference, some proof. Ot...<I>Let's see some objective reference, some proof. Otherwise, you destroy your own credibility and we can discard the rest of what you wrote as propaganda. Of your cause is just, you don't need to lie or fabricate. The pro-Hamas side has no credibility because they lie.</I><BR/><BR/>Surely objective observers will note the tone here. This is most recognizable to anyone who has debated the Zionists.<BR/><BR/>They use a software program known as MEGAPHONE.<BR/><BR/>From the London Times:<BR/><I><BR/>From The Times July 28, 2006<BR/>Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers<BR/>From Yonit Farago in Jerusalem<BR/><BR/>WHILE Israel fights Hezbollah with tanks and aircraft, its supporters are campaigning on the internet.<BR/><BR/>Israel’s Government has thrown its weight behind efforts by supporters to counter what it believes to be negative bias and a tide of pro-Arab propaganda. The Foreign Ministry has ordered trainee diplomats to track websites and chatrooms so that networks of US and European groups with hundreds of thousands of Jewish activists can place supportive messages.<BR/><BR/>In the past week nearly 5,000 members of the World Union of Jewish Students (WUJS) have downloaded special “megaphone” software that alerts them to anti-Israeli chatrooms or internet polls to enable them to post contrary viewpoints. A student team in Jerusalem combs the web in a host of different languages to flag the sites so that those who have signed up can influence an opinion survey or the course of a debate.</I><BR/><BR/>By proof you must surely mean EVIDENCE?<BR/><BR/>Although when debating the Zionists it is important to remember they DO NOT WANT the TRUTH to come out. They merely wish to distract the reader from the awful truth of what they do.<BR/><BR/>Just as they use the BIG LIE technique with the topic of the USS LIBERTY.<BR/><BR/>Here is something about the targeted murder of innocent children:<BR/><BR/>“The boys, most no more than ten or eleven years old, scattered, running clumsily through the heavy sand. They descended out of sight behind the dune in front of me. There were no sounds of gunfire. The Israeli soldiers shoot with silencers. The bullets from the American M-16 rifles tumble end over end through the children’s slight bodies. Later, in the hospital, I will see the destruction: the stomachs ripped out, the gaping holes in limbs and torsos... Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covered, but never before have I watched as soldiers enticed children like mice into a trap and murdered them for sport.”<BR/>Christopher Hedges, former NY Times correspondent on assignment in Gaza<BR/>War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning (2002)<BR/>Also in his magazine article, in "A Gaza Diary: Scenes from the Palestinian Uprising," Harper's magazine, October 2001, p. 64<BR/><BR/>Hedges was a member of the New York Times team that won the 2002<BR/>Pulitzer Prize for Explanatory Reporting<BR/><BR/>Australian film maker Richard Franklin was filming with IDF soldiers in Palestine, he stood behind them while they shot at school children on their way to classes.<BR/><BR/>This site is maintained by former US State Department personnel whose hands were tied while employed so they could not get the truth out.<BR/>http://www.wrmea.com/<BR/><BR/>Taki has a comment on the Gaza terrorism by Israel:<BR/>http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/the_gaza_massacreAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-69204686463378996582009-01-05T15:55:00.000-07:002009-01-05T15:55:00.000-07:00Anonymous @ 11:53 am -- Thanks for the link. The e...Anonymous @ 11:53 am -- <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the link. The essay usefully fleshes out some of the context, but it strikes me as a protracted exercise in special pleading. <BR/><BR/>Witness, for instance, the author's reference to "the encounter at Wounded Knee" -- <I>"encounter"</I>? Was this a therapy session of some sort? <BR/><BR/>Consider as well the antiseptic language describing them, ahem, *encounter* between Sioux and the guns of the Seventh Cavalry:<BR/><BR/>"While an encampment of Sioux was being searched for arms, a few young men created an incident; the soldiers, furious at what they considered an act of Indian treachery, fought back furiously as guns surrounding the encampment opened fire with deadly effect."<BR/><BR/>"Fought back" implies that it was somehow the starving, outgunned, helpless Sioux who were the aggressors here. <BR/><BR/>He continues: "In a situation where women and children were mixed with men, it was inevitable that some of the former would be killed.... There may have been a few deliberate killings of noncombatants, but on the whole, as a court of inquiry ordered by President Harrison established, the officers and soldiers of the unit made supreme efforts to avoid killing women and children."<BR/><BR/>Color me cynical, but I'm generally not persuaded when a Federal inquiry into a Federal atrocity ends up acquitting the Feds. Numerous eyewitnesses confirmed that scores or hundreds of women and children were slaughtered at Wounded Knee, despite the "supreme" effort supposedly made to avoid killing noncombatants. <BR/><BR/>But the single biggest problem with this essay, as it typical of its genre, is this: It doesn't acknowledge that the dispossession of the Indians -- particularly seizure of the Black Hills from the Sioux -- was a criminal act. That the Feds occasionally discriminated between combatant and non-combatant in carrying out that policy, or otherwise exercised restraint, doesn't change the underlying nature of the offense.William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-55251907044580266122009-01-05T14:19:00.000-07:002009-01-05T14:19:00.000-07:00To anonymous 10:12http://rememberthesechildren.org...To anonymous 10:12<BR/><BR/>http://rememberthesechildren.org/remember2008.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-63819439510812140382009-01-05T12:53:00.000-07:002009-01-05T12:53:00.000-07:00The other side of the story is important to unders...The other side of the story is important to understand, too.<BR/><BR/>http://hnn.us/articles/7302.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-30314835540900973202009-01-05T11:12:00.000-07:002009-01-05T11:12:00.000-07:00Anonymous @ 8:31 AM said: For decades now IDF has ...Anonymous @ 8:31 AM said: <I>For decades now IDF has targeted CHILDREN, they lure them out then snipers take them out, almost as a sport.</I><BR/><BR/>Let's see some objective reference, some proof. Otherwise, you destroy your own credibility and we can discard the rest of what you wrote as propaganda. Of your cause is just, you don't need to lie or fabricate. The pro-Hamas side has no credibility because they lie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-60413726051031954932009-01-05T10:32:00.000-07:002009-01-05T10:32:00.000-07:00This is off topic, slightly, and your other reader...This is off topic, slightly, and your other readers have probably already tipped you off to it, but, nonetheless, via LewRockwell.com, police manslaughter:<BR/><BR/>http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/024723.htmlChristopherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300064299643040666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-10561719539100012542009-01-05T09:31:00.000-07:002009-01-05T09:31:00.000-07:00If you try to make comparisons between Gaza and Wo...<I>If you try to make comparisons between Gaza and Wounded Knee, you have to look past the TV set that tries to make Israel appear the aggressor.</I><BR/><BR/>Eric Margolis' column from Lew Rockwell:<BR/>http://www.lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis131.html<BR/><BR/><I><BR/> There are two completely different versions of what is currently happening in Gaza.<BR/><BR/><B>In the Israeli and North American press version</B>, Hamas – "Islamic terrorists" backed by Iran – have in an unprovoked attack fired deadly rockets on innocent Israel with the intent of destroying the Jewish state.<BR/><BR/>North American politicians and the media say Israel "has the right to defend itself." </I><BR/><BR/>For decades now IDF has targeted CHILDREN, they lure them out then snipers take them out, almost as a sport.<BR/><BR/>Luke 17:2<BR/>It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.<BR/><BR/>What about how any politician or professor who speaks out against the wholesale suborning of our congress is DESTROYED?<BR/><BR/>The cost to Americans from this "special relationship" is staggering:<BR/><BR/>http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html<BR/><BR/>The lady who runs this website, an American, receives DEATH THREATS from the supporters of Israel:<BR/><BR/>http://www.ifamericansknew.org/<BR/><BR/>I'd like to end with a quote from Mike Rivero, which he wrote a few years ago when the AIPAC arrests were first announced:<BR/><BR/>So here is the mother of all scandals.<BR/><BR/>For two years, the FBI has suspected AIPAC of spying for a foreign country, <B>and for those two years (and for decades before) that group suspected of spying for Israel has been reshaping the US Congress for the benefit of a foreign government.</B><BR/><BR/>And THAT is the mother of all scandals.<BR/><BR/>Think about that as billions of your tax dollars flow to Israel while your roads and schools crumble and decay and services are cut.<BR/><BR/>Think about that as the coffins come home with your loved ones inside.<BR/><BR/>Think about that when you and a million of your fellow citizens march down the streets of America opposing wars built on lies and deceptions and wonder why the government just doesn’t want to listen to you any more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-12236949221119994692009-01-05T08:26:00.000-07:002009-01-05T08:26:00.000-07:00American Christians do need reminders to return to...<I>American Christians do need reminders to return to Christ. If we didn't need reminders, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in right now.</I><BR/><BR/>Dave, you're absolutely correct and I think that your first sentence in the quote above points to the root of the problem - nationalism. Most American Christians are, whether or not they realize it or wish to admit it, ardent nationalists first and Christians a very distant second. Granted, this condition is by no means historically unique to Americans who call themselves Christians, but it has manifested itself in particularly virulent and destructive form in this country in the late 20th and early 21st centuries. <BR/><BR/>The bottom line is that America's Christians must make a choice: either they lead their lives in accordance with the teachings of the Gospels and love all of their fellow man as Christ commanded, or they follow the Red, White, and Blue banner of the American state. There is no middle ground, as the two paths are mutually exclusive. In other words, Christians in the United States, if they really and truly are such, are going to have to face the prospect of living the lives of their First Century ancestors, complete with persecution, poverty, and even ugly and violent death at the hands of the State. <BR/><BR/>For a living example, look at the burgeoning Christian communities in Sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia that thrive despite --indeed, probably because of-- persecution at the hands of their non-Christian neighbors and their own governments. The lesson appears clear - the Christian Church tolerated or sanctioned by the State is a co-opted church. The defeated Sioux people clearly realized this, as evidenced by their formation of an alternate sect not sanctioned by the white man's government, which realized the threat to its power that this group presented and wasted no time in obliterating it. (Or trying to. I have no doubt that remnants of this sect continue to exist today in some form on the Pine Ridge and other reservations).liberranterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00555275410576294081noreply@blogger.com