Comments on Pro Libertate: Abolish Your Local Police

I agree 100%.

2015-07-01T13:30:47.653-06:00

I agree 100%.

Agree with rejecting the bullying and abuse, total...

2013-08-10T12:54:00.190-06:00

Agree with rejecting the bullying and abuse, totally. However, there is another side that ALSO needs covering, and that's the whistleblowing officers who try to fight the corruption by themselves and lose their career for sure, and sometimes their lives. If there was more support for whistleblowers, instead of letting the brainwashing work about them being "traitors," it could actually change things because the balance would be in favor of the whistleblower!

Here's a weblink to a Kansas officer who got wrongful termination and finally decided to fight back with a lawsuit: http://www.basehorinfo.com/news/2012/aug/23/former-police-officer-sues-city-basehor-alleging-w/

Story has also been picked up in US Observer and Bob Livingston's Personal Liberty Digest, excellent article by Lorne Dey who did his own research:

http://www.usobserver.com/archive/july-13/cory-excop-sues-city.htm

http://personalliberty.com/2013/08/09/ex-cop-sues-city-over-wrongful-termination/#disqus_thread

Local media doesn't seem to be interested in this, once the local paper published the lawsuit a year ago, so nobody's picking this up so that the locals are aware that their own city hall is under the looking glass! Wonder why! "We do it because we can!" Ck out the comments on Livingston's Personal Liberty Digest for 2 posters' extra background info to the story--even on FB.

Seems to me there should be an internet wall of fr...

2013-08-10T02:16:45.913-06:00

Seems to me there should be an internet wall of freedomista heroics, and on that wall are the names of those who stood up against tyranny and Fascism and the paid a price.

If there was such a wall - and not a B.S. wall like so many these days - three names I'd nominate:

Ramon Perez from Austin, Texas, and Regina Tasca from Bogata, New Jersey, and the very heroic, William N. Grigg.

Thank you for giving me a reason to respect (appreciate?) humanity.

There are others, ones who stand up against the bastards who love to put the boot on the face of mankind, but those names stand out tonight. True heroes, all.

- IndividualAudienceMember

This will always be apropos: http://www.theonion.c...

2013-08-09T15:18:43.563-06:00

This will always be apropos: http://www.theonion.com/articles/insecure-frustrated-bully-with-something-to-prove,33427/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default

Onion, why are you so prescient?

will b, Again, I agree and disagree. Without par...

2013-08-09T12:29:34.141-06:00

will b,

Again, I agree and disagree. Without parsing through it all again, I just want to respond to your comment regarding "a just jury is the only real remedy where both judges and police conspire to break the spirit of the law or otherwise enforce unjust laws"

This remedy will not criminally prosecute the aforementioned judge/police who are without a shadow of a doubt committing criminal acts. That is the flaw in your plan. All of the govt agents will continue to act with impunity.

Thanks for keeping me up to date with the news tha...

2013-08-09T02:52:54.125-06:00

Thanks for keeping me up to date with the news that I've missed these past few days. Great post, Will. As always, amazingly thorough job. Your work is widely under appreciated.

While I might not go so far as to abolish the loca...

2013-08-07T11:52:26.017-06:00

While I might not go so far as to abolish the local police (just restrict them very, very much), I most definitely sympathize with those who hold that it's acceptable to use defensive lethal force against these thugs in blue, black, or whatever the heck they're wearing.

In fact, I might support certain attempts to do so, and if those attempts succeed, then that would be a good thing.

@joyce I too agree and disagree, but... Juries h...

2013-08-06T08:28:19.704-06:00

@joyce

I too agree and disagree, but...

Juries have the legal authority to judge both fact and law.
This is historical to the common law and is constitutional.
Yes, our courts are eroding this ultimate power of the people but
the pendulum is swinging. Last year New Hampshire approved court
procedure allowing defense attorneys to argue jury prerogative
to judge both law and fact. This is cause to celebrate.

Meanwhile, though attorneys (outside New Hampshire) cannot inform
juries of their true power, that power exists nonetheless.
An individual jury person who is aware of that power can legally
and justly exercise it. So: Get on a jury and shield your fellow man!

As for plea bargaining, it is a scare tactic and I agree that it is
used in a predatory manner that circumvents justice. However, if
defendants were able to appeal to a fully informed jury (law and fact)
then I believe this would take all the cards away from prosecutors.

As for excessive police force, it is legal to resist excessive
police force in Texas but as you say, you better have witnesses,
and thanks to the latest technology and the fact that the police are
rapidly losing popular support, those witnesses are easier and easier
to come by. In the meantime, it is prudent to submit and avoid injury
as much as is possible.

Again, a just jury is the only real remedy where both judges and police
conspire to break the spirit of the law or otherwise enforce unjust laws.
A fully informed jury can nullify the law. This is the exceptional and
ultimate power of the jury: to nullify law and/or exonerate a defendant.
The judge cannot do so, the police cannot do so, only a jury can nullify the law.
This power was intentionally given to juries so to protect us from the very
overreach we are seeing exercised by our judges, police and legislatures.

We the People are not duty bound or legally bound to enforce their crap laws.
As juries we can not only refuse to enforce a law but we can publicly pronounce
a law as null and void and there is nothing they can do about it.
Through jury nullification we could effectively end the drug war, the
tax war, civil rights war, police war, and every other war the state has
declared against us.

A jury has 3 verdicts (not just 2)
1)Guilty
2)Not Guilty
3)The Law is a Ass.

This is no joke. It really is that simple and intentionally so.

The pendulum is swinging in our favor. As the state loses control
it becomes more and more violent in asserting that control.
Eventually, everyone will have a beef against the state and it will
collapse under its own weight, and the cages will open.

aenaut, the world will always have some bad people...

2013-08-06T08:22:27.582-06:00

aenaut,
the world will always have some bad people within it, and, to date there are very few techniques for identifying and weeding out bad people from any group.

on the basis that humans are not angels, and any group of humans may contain some bad ones;

why should any group be permitted the privilege of lawfully committing aggressive violence?

That privilege of committing aggressive violence with impunity is exactly what the cops have, and is it any wonder that we see it being abused?

is it any wonder that the institution of cop seems to attract bullies and sadists in disproportionate numbers?

Sure, to paraphrase Robert Peel, we have need for those who devote themselves full time to those duties which are the responsibility of every individual.

but we need those full time protectors to be regular people, who are subject to the same laws as the rest of us - including free market competition,

rather than perpetuating some specially privileged monopoly caste.

Police are not peace officers; they are state-lice...

2013-08-05T23:33:16.130-06:00

Police are not peace officers; they are state-licensed practitioners of aggression and coercion. Peace officers are people who defend private property (including the bodily integrity of innocent people). Police have no enforceable duty to protect an individual citizen from criminal violence. Some will do so on occasion, but this is not required of them.

A genuine peace officer employed as a cop would intervene to prevent aggressive violence by his or her colleagues. That almost never happens. I've profiled two very different peace officers -- Ramon Perez from Austin, Texas, and Regina Tasca from Bogata, New Jersey -- who were quickly removed from the force because they had intervened to protect innocent citizens from potentially lethal police abuse. In each case, the "offender" was branded a risk to "officer safety," run through a bogus psychological evaluation, and then cashiered.

The American public pays an extravagant sum for government enforcement officers -- and even more in voluntary payments for private security, which is necessary because police do not protect life and property. So there are plenty of genuine peace officers around; they just don't work for the government.

So lemme toss out a question to ya'all....Obvi...

2013-08-05T23:14:14.761-06:00

So lemme toss out a question to ya'all....Obviously, an "ideal" society would have no need for peace officers as everyone would get along peacefully. But here, in the real world, now, would you have ANY peace officers? If so, what would be their role in society. If not, then who takes care of the real human offenders?

will b, I agree and disagree. I agree that when ...

2013-08-05T13:45:17.529-06:00

will b,

I agree and disagree.

I agree that when in the moment people (who are in the right) stand up against the police, they will probably die or almost die.

I disagree that juries will save us... first of all, the right to a trial by jury is being eroded (they keep expanding the number of 'offenses' that are 'quasi-legal' or 'administrative' in which they say, nope no jury for this case). Secondly, the state will use every trick in the book to get you to plead out including freezing/stealing your assets pre-trial.

Which brings me back to maybe we do need to fight back at the time of being accosted by LEO's. We need bystanders to already be fed up and be so disgusted at the illegal actions by police that they need to intervene. They are the ones who are outnumbers. By something like 300 to 1.

So what ever happened to these bastard criminal th...

2013-08-05T02:51:46.024-06:00

So what ever happened to these bastard criminal thug nazis? Most likely they all got a promotion and it's still business as usual.

How much longer are these murdering sob's with guns and badges going to continue to get away with these atrocities under the color of law before the people just start taking them out before they take you out?

There exists a law, not written down anywhere but inborn in our hearts; a law which comes to us not by training or custom or reading but by derivation and absorption and adoption from nature itself; a law which has come to us not from theory but from practice, not by instruction but by natural intuition. I refer to the law which lays it down that, if our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right. Marcus Tullius Cicero

Our mindsets that interpret the "justice"...

2013-08-04T19:52:11.577-06:00

Our mindsets that interpret the "justice" system need to quickly progress so that we can collectively gain the courage to actually synergize effective administrative action. These are corporate code enforcers that are granted authority and jurisdiction by; our own effort, consent, presumption and contractual maxims. The delusion and ignorance most people suffer from is a Stockholm syndrome-like defect that prevents any free thinking movement based on moral reasoning and equal consideration. I have considered the alternatives to main stream code enforcement for some time. I encourage everyone to put effort into a factually based cost-benefit analysis of "law" enforcement corporations vs. community centered safety models. Analyze the CAFR of each code enforcement municipality while considering all four elements of a contract. Knowing most states have predominate corporate "courts" that are infested with corporate trained, highly condition, self serving, ignorant, impostors, is frustrating because We, 14th amendment citizens consent and support it...we need to provide counter conditioning and encourage free thinking communities to independent, locally relevant remedies. Additionally, most states are administrative based and require legal documentation in order to refute clauses in an ever changing web of contracts. Dissent and anger is trending, I hope movements of intelligent responses can also trend.

non de guerre, you've reminded me of a couple ...

2013-08-04T15:57:27.629-06:00

non de guerre, you've reminded me of a couple of old South African jokes:^)

Q: What do you call a baboon with and AK?

A: Sir! and, you say please Sir, and Thankyou Sir.

Q: What do you call a baboon with an AK, that just had sex 5 minutes ago?

A: Anything you damn well like, He's fast asleep and won't hear you.

A friend from the Baltic states (Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia) told me that the public perception of their cops is of heavy drinking, wife beating bullies and loosers

-Which sounds like a very healthy opinion to hold.

Keith, a very good point you make. Thats why I pre...

2013-08-04T14:19:48.740-06:00

Keith, a very good point you make. Thats why I prefer to call them Monkeys with Guns. Hopefully, no organ grinder takes exception to that.

Re: "pigs" My four legged swine are pla...

2013-08-04T08:53:43.201-06:00

Re: "pigs"

My four legged swine are placid and productive individuals, and apart from excitement over food, or stroppiness from my ancient boar when there's a sow on heat, they are entirely trust worthy and make enjoyable company (as well as bacon).

a complete contrast to the unproductive, unpredictable and frequently lethal violence from the individuals who form the generously upholstered blue line.

Our best and last line of defense is our juries. ...

2013-08-04T08:51:24.096-06:00

Our best and last line of defense is our juries.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/08/roger-roots/must-convict/

Get on a jury and shield your fellow man.

For Texas residents: In Texas, you cannot resist ...

2013-08-04T08:07:08.705-06:00

For Texas residents:

In Texas, you cannot resist an arrest conducted by someone you know to be a peace officer
regardless of whether the arrest is legal or not, however, you may resist unnecessary
use of force by a peace officer in certain circumstances:

Code PE - Penal Code
▿ Title 2. - General Principles Of Criminal Responsibility
▿ Chapter 9. - Justification Excluding Criminal Responsibility
▿ Subchapter C. - Protection Of Persons
§ 9.31. - Self-Defense.
...
(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
...
(2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer,
or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, even though the
arrest or search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under Subsection (c);
(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is justified:
(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the peace officer (or person acting at his
direction) uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
protect himself against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use of greater
force than necessary.

Although this statute gives you the right to resist unnecessary use of force I would use the
analogy of a pedestrian walking in a cross-walk: though you have the legal right-of-way do you
really want to stand on principle against a speeding truck willing to run you over regardless?
Bottom line, when it comes to cops you are out-manned and out-gunned; don't resist, make your
stand in court.

Only our juries can save us from an oppressive judicial bench and police force.
Rather than looking for ways to get off a jury we should all be looking for ways to get on a jury.

Where I live, no one has ever suggested that His M...

2013-08-03T23:26:27.413-06:00

Where I live, no one has ever suggested that His Majesty's police behave like those in America.

Anonymous @ 1:58PM, your bit about the difference ...

2013-08-03T21:20:29.104-06:00

Anonymous @ 1:58PM, your bit about the difference between "legal" and "lawful." reminded me of this article:

A Nation of Rules

"The United States, once a “nation of laws,” has become a “nation of rules.” [...] Americans, however, do not seem to be able to see the difference between the two."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/07/william-l-anderson/the-us-justice-system/

- IndividualAudienceMember

When a law-abiding person such as myself strongly ...

2013-08-03T19:09:55.854-06:00

When a law-abiding person such as myself strongly dislikes most police officers (a.k.a. "pigs"), the real problem can obviously be found residing in the thug behind the badge.

When the sh*t finally hits the fan, and some Americans openly and violently rebel, the pigs are going to be ENTIRELY SURPRISED to discover how much they are hated by the silent majority (of law-abiding people).

The fact that a large number of police officers are former military personnel says a lot about cops... and our military personnel.

Oops!
What I meant to say was...

"SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!"
Without them, Iraq and every other backwards, third-world, pothole nation would have obliterated our Constitutional freedom. Thank God for our brave and intelligent fighting folk!

~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'

Though I certainly agree in principle with what is...

2013-08-03T13:58:55.307-06:00

Though I certainly agree in principle with what is stated in the article, I would like to try to clear up a few things concerning this passage:

" . . . I earnestly hope that Americans will agitate for the restoration of legal protection for the right to resist unlawful arrest. Eventually, however, we must demolish the spurious legal protections that allow the continued existence of government “law enforcement” agencies that claim a monopoly on aggression."

First, the difference between "legal" and "lawful." When you talk about "lawful," you are talking about "law," and specifically common or natural law, or what some people might just call "God's law." When you talk about "legal," you are talking about corporate legal codes. In other words, in the context of common and natural law, which are NOT dealt with in the courts today, which operate under commercial and maritime law, people are entitled to "lawful" protection to resist unlawful arrest. (By the way, unlawful arrest is kidnapping, and if it's done at gunpoint, these pigs could face life in prison.)

Also, pigs don't engage in "law enforcement." They are corporate code enforcers. The "government," with the willing help of the whores in the "mainstream" media, has erased the distinction between "law" and "legal codes."

Since all governments are actually corporations, the crap that they try to call "law," such as statutes, regulations, codes, by-laws, etc., does not "lawfully" apply to anybody outside their corporate structure. In a closely-related manner, the Constitution itself states in Article I, Section 8, Clause 17 that federal legislation has no jurisdiction inside the union states.

It is vital that people in the union states realize the difference between "legal" and "lawful," and that they realize that these "legal codes" are an obvious sign of a corporate "government" that has no claim to either respect or legitimacy.

The only legitimate functions of a legitimate government (if one can actually exist) are the negative concepts of protecting peoples' lives, liberty and property. At the point where any "government" starts passing millions of "legal codes" trying to tell people that they have to register automobiles, wear helmets while riding bicycles, what kind of light bulbs they can purchase, or how much water their toilet can use to flush itself, you have arrived at the point where you either refuse to comply, or act and live as a slave.

A lot of what I've stated here can be reinforced in many places. You might want to start by googling Reality Blog, and looking at two very informative articles on that site concerning this issue, called "Killing Your STRAWMAN – The Path To Freedom," and "Killing Your STRAWMAN 2: A Free Man's Chronicle."

As someone once said, "Good night, and good luck."

Another argument, Will, for the abolition of "...

2013-08-03T13:58:15.408-06:00

Another argument, Will, for the abolition of "law enforcement." The Federalization on local "law enforcement" certainly did not help matters.