Comments on Pro Libertate: Leviathan's Orphans

First let me offer you an apology for the snotty &...

2009-11-20T16:10:05.726-07:00

First let me offer you an apology for the snotty "Hey genius" comment. I try to always be polite and respectful but was a little peeved. Anyway, I apologize for the rudeness.

Bah, I don't pay that stuff any mind. No sweat of my back, man. Besides, I usually can recognize written sarcasm anyway ;).

Speaking of implication, I think I owe Will an apology for my "ass cheeks" comment, which after I re-read the post seemed to be aimed directly at Will since he often says, "government that rules us." But actually I was writing about folk who look upon government and the common folk collective as separate unrelated entities with nothing in common. Since I hear Will say it so often on his radio show I just utilized that as a knee-jerk catch phrase to describe such folk without thinking it through.

I'm sorry Will. I didn't mean it to reference YOU personally in that sense. I think you personally do see the reality, but just don't want to indict the common folk too much, which is understandable from your point of view ;).

Anonymous @ 6:35 I think the world has fogotten &q...

2009-11-20T05:56:04.486-07:00

Anonymous @ 6:35
I think the world has fogotten "why" war exists. It exists to defend the lives of our wives and children and our way of life.
In order to suppress the gag reflex, I will take this as sarcasm.

Dixiedog, First let me offer you an apology for t...

2009-11-19T19:59:39.522-07:00

Dixiedog,

First let me offer you an apology for the snotty "Hey genius" comment. I try to always be polite and respectful but was a little peeved. Anyway, I apologize for the rudeness.

I don't want to belabor the point but as to your argument:

" You said: Single moms should not be looked at with pity; rather they should be looked at with contempt. The majority of 'single moms' are such because of the choices they alone made and now their children must suffer because of their mother's irresponsibility.

Is the first sentence not a generalization? Implication, WB, implication."

Yes, the first sentence is a generalization; that's why I clarified it with the second sentence using the term "the majority". Therefore the rest of your comments suggesting I meant ALL single moms are moot.

"Sigh...reading comprehension does help."

Yes, it certainly does.

wow, I see a lot of comments like this one "...

2009-11-19T15:47:17.109-07:00

wow,

I see a lot of comments like this one

"If she KNEW she could not serve, she should not have VOLUNTARILY signed up for military service in the first place. This is now all her problem due to her bad decision."

It is interesting to see just how many commenters here don't seem to believe in unalienable rights. I had been under the misapprehension that they were the basis for the legitimacy of the republic.

It seems to me that this:

" It's difficult to see how a government -- how a country -- capable of sending mothers into combat zones could be considered worthy of defense.

Says it all.

"The following point, or some variant thereof...

2009-11-19T15:10:47.714-07:00

"The following point, or some variant thereof, has been made by several people commenting on this thread:" - Will G.

"Is the military now a form of working welfare wherein the member decides where, when and how they will be posted?" - Kirk

Will's response, again, is useful here:

"I ask this question in all sincerity: How can someone "live up" to a contract that only binds one of the parties? The government is free to re-define key elements of that agreement to suit its purposes; when the enlistee does so, he/she faces severe criminal sanctions."

Statists (not sic) never seem to recall the other binding party in this "contract",i.e. the government.

None of this would be necessary if the US would si...

2009-11-19T14:05:30.714-07:00

None of this would be necessary if the US would simply cease meddling in other countries and stop its incessant wars. Such a change in foreign Policy would also prevent further revenge terrorist attacks.

Hey genius, where/when did I ever suggest that &qu...

2009-11-19T11:01:20.705-07:00

Hey genius, where/when did I ever suggest that "WB's generalization of 'single moms' as if every single mom in existence is one by choice."?????!!!!

You said: Single moms should not be looked at with pity; rather they should be looked at with contempt. The majority of "single moms" are such because of the choices they alone made and now their children must suffer because of their mother's irresponsibility.

Is the first sentence not a generalization? Implication, WB, implication. It is after all more potent than explication in the mind's eye.

I never said EVERY single mom in existence is one by choice...

Sigh...reading comprehension does help. I never said (wrote) you SAID (wrote) anything, until this post! Did you see yourself quoted in italics in the earlier post? No. I'll show that you SAID something by quoting what you actually indeed SAID, like I always have done here.

I wrote: I do, however, take issue with WB's generalization of "single moms" as if every single mom in existence is one by choice.

Then, I even qualified what I wrote above further: I gather that he was specifically speaking of the military women...

IOW, the totality of what you wrote implied the generalization that single women are such due to choices they alone have made.

Is it all clearer now? Please re-read what I wrote again and see if you come away with a different point of view.

She knew before she signed up she could be sent an...

2009-11-19T08:51:14.627-07:00

She knew before she signed up she could be sent anywhere, no one forced her to join and yet she did and now refuses to go.

Is the military now a form of working welfare wherein the member decides where, when and how they will be posted?

I have nothing but contempt for this woman. She made the choices to become a single mother AND join the military and now she expects others must pay to cover her poor choices. This, sadly, has become the amerikan way.

I think the world has fogotten "why" war...

2009-11-19T07:35:52.354-07:00

I think the world has fogotten "why" war exists. It exists to defend the lives of our wives and children and our way of life.

That said, Women should never become solders and this problem shouldn't exist.

uilodomhnaill, You said: [The"Family", ...

2009-11-19T01:24:02.212-07:00

uilodomhnaill,

You said: [The"Family", not unlike religion and government, is a primary tool of the control junkies who work so very hard to destroy individual freedom! That's why religion and government have always worked so hard to integrate it into their power structures.]

Then you said: [WHAT KIND OF INDIVIDUALIST BENDS OVER FOR THE MYTHICAL CREATOR???]

You have muddied the dialogue by equating human politics and human religions with the Creator of the Universe. Man does not even know how the Universe was created - the Big Bang is only a theory, and all Man's science breaks down as one comes closer and closer to that supposed hypothetical singular event.

In addition to proposing the Big Bang, Man has also proposed God. Man has created God in Man's own image. Man has also proposed economic theory, politics, and Man's ability to control Nature. But sufficient unto the present discussion is the absurdity thereof, without listing a Christmas catalogue of human folly.

Step outside some clear night and look up at the sky - qaudrillions of star systems across tens of billions of light-years of space. Yet one set of men says, it all happened by chance but we don't know how, and another set of men says, God made it and we can tell you what He thinks.

Both are arrogantly presumptuous. To think we ignorant and limited animals who call ourselves Man can understand it is foolish. Neither did it happen by chance and neither can our limited intellects understand the Creator of all of that.

So you are both right and wrong. You are right to challenge those who pretend to understand the Creator and all His works, but you are wrong to say the Creator does not exist. He/She/It is beyond our understanding. For proof, as I suggested, step outside some night and bend your stiff neck to look upwards.

If all you can see are little twinkilng lights, then you have my sympathy - you must live a very arid and depressing existence.

Tom Joad.

PS: If that still does not convince you, try this: Look into the eyes of a child that you love, and tell me that glorious being evolved from pond scum and is nothing more than so many gallons of water, so many ounces of sodium, so many pounds of calcium, and so on. Go on. Say it. If you can say that, you are denying your humanity.

"The government is free to re-define key elem...

2009-11-18T23:21:32.084-07:00

"The government is free to re-define key elements of that agreement to suit its purposes;"

And that should be clear to anybody thinking about signing up. If it's not, then they're not a functioning adult.

It isn't really hidden what sort of deal this is. You're putting your life in their hands and trusting them to not do anything too terrible or pointless with it.

Dixiedog days: "I'll just say that I agr...

2009-11-18T21:03:16.888-07:00

Dixiedog days:

"I'll just say that I agree with most of the gist of what the veterans above have already stated. I do, however, take issue with WB's generalization of "single moms" as if every single mom in existence is one by choice. I gather that he was specifically speaking of the military women who splay themselves far too often without any thought of potential future consequences, or in some cases knew full well what they were attempting to do - get out of hated assignments."

Hey genius, where/when did I ever suggest that "WB's generalization of 'single moms' as if every single mom in existence is one by choice."?????!!!! I never said EVERY single mom in existence is one by choice, I am saying specifically that most single moms are such because of the choices they alone have made (again with the exception of rape).

"The intellect" indeed. Good luck uilodo...

2009-11-18T20:58:58.345-07:00

"The intellect" indeed. Good luck uilodomhnaill, I hope you're a talented intellectual pugilist.

How is belief in the myth of abiogenesis more rati...

2009-11-18T19:01:09.237-07:00

How is belief in the myth of abiogenesis more rational than acceptance of the scientific principle that life begets life?

Perhaps you should defer answering that question to deal with my still-pending query: How is belief that human beings are only matter in motion a prerequisite for individualism?

It,of course is not bending over, for anyone,you a...

2009-11-18T18:20:01.125-07:00

It,of course is not bending over, for anyone,you are correct. It is compromising reality for mythology,which is the intellect bending over to the irrational. You are correct that you can't see it.

Where did you get the notion that faith entails &q...

2009-11-18T16:46:20.328-07:00

Where did you get the notion that faith entails "bending over" for anyone?

I can't see how assuming that human beings are mere matter in motion is a necessary prerequisite for individualism.

WHAT KIND OF INDIVIDUALIST BENDS OVER FOR THE MYTH...

2009-11-18T16:27:27.470-07:00

WHAT KIND OF INDIVIDUALIST BENDS OVER FOR THE MYTHICAL CREATOR???

Pertaining to your radio show last night, Will, I ...

2009-11-18T15:32:04.909-07:00

Pertaining to your radio show last night, Will, I completely agree with your "government should have no say..." but reality is otherwise, naturally. What was it you said? "No skin off my back..." or something similar? It's simply not true. The problem (and it's the most polarizing, irreconcilable problem, IMHO) with this oft stated comment is that statist-minded factions of whatever flavor don't share that mindset. If they did, I'd be a reliable ally of ANY of them because I would know they wish not to compel me to conform to their BS mantra if I choose not to indulge. Lovely! I'm game for that. But...sigh...it's a pipe dream.

Even though some of these factions mouth off loudly how they believe in the "live and let live" principle, they act otherwise. It was indeed amusing watching the closet Leviathan lubbers, who masqueraded initially as "freedom" folk, when Ron Paul was speaking at Google in 2007. They were all smiles and grins when he first was introduced, but as he spoke and made clear his stand of the federal Leviathan having NO CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY whatsoever regulating ANY conduct/behavior/commerce within individual states or of individual people within those states, their grins and smiles melted away quickly and I laughed.

In reality, they want everyone compelled to live under their yoke provided by a Leviathan they (the "Leninist" collective) control. Thus, it simply can't (and won't) work within the same nation ruled by the same Leviathan, if "the individualist" doesn't agree and, most significantly, won't simply "go along to get along." That unfortunately is what will kill freedom ultimately, the "go along to get along" syndrome that way too many are afflicted with. After all, if it isn't some form of [Ecclesio-Leninist, Islamo-Leninist (unlike "Islamo-Fascist" there's some truth to this moniker), Lavender-Leninist, Pagan-Leninist, Eco-Leninist, Econ-Leninist, Socio-Leninist...Fourth Internationalist, et al] factions beckoning the State on their respective behalf, then other factions not named above will be. And, of course, some of those named factions above can be interwoven and work towards similar goals in terms of Leviathan regulation and control.

The fact is that some mindsets are diametrically opposed to one another, irreconcilable, although as alluded to above (e.g. the "Leninist" collective), all of the "Leninist" factions have one thing in common -- their love of and reliance upon Leviathan. But for individualist folk who believe in and manage to practice self-government, these folk will clash and cannot work together as the entire foundation/premise of "the collective" and "the individualist" mindset is worlds apart.

Anybody have a solution? The only solution I can see, humanly speaking, is to put this farrago asunder once and for all, but instead most of the impetus and mind-molding in progress for decades from entertainment media, news media, Leviathan's incubation chambers (schools), churches, corporations, etc. today is towards more collectivization, more regulation, more welfare, more war, more environmental alarmism and control, more techno-centralization, more centralization in general everywhere.

But then, when I step back and view the "big picture" I imagine the Author and Creator of the universe is really the One writing the script.

I'll just say that I agree with most of the gi...

2009-11-18T15:28:00.790-07:00

I'll just say that I agree with most of the gist of what the veterans above have already stated. I do, however, take issue with WB's generalization of "single moms" as if every single mom in existence is one by choice. I gather that he was specifically speaking of the military women who splay themselves far too often without any thought of potential future consequences, or in some cases knew full well what they were attempting to do - get out of hated assignments. It was beginning to get bad when I was in the AF ('84-'90), as I was in a GLCM squadron and not many women wanted to be assigned to a GLCM squadron, but I reckon it's pandemic today. Sparta did do one thing right, they gifted us with the word "spartan" for a reason ;).

Nevertheless, just in case he meant any and all single moms, I had/have a single mom and it was my dad, who didn't know or much care to learn how to be a real one, that made the choice of divorce for my mother a no brainer. No matter, though, because, ironically in my case, it actually made me a more hardy fella growin' up and I could smash faces into the ground with the best of 'em in school since I had no dad or gang to back me up at any time. I was rough-hewn, somewhat articulate and well-read, yet I didn't really fit into any given clique (or collective), the "thug" set or the "clean cut" set. Thus, I'm not bitter about it today; I don't regret any of the hard knocks experienced and I forgave him. But, in the days of rough and rumble childhood yore I despised the man.

Unsurprisingly, the raising by a single mom probably has, however, contributed greatly to my cynicism and skepticism of folk in general and powerful folk in particular. And, of course, those traits have only been ever more fueled over the years. After all, we have the government that rules us precisely because we WANTED this government to rule us. Ergo, folk who yak endlessly about "the government that rules us" yet miss that critical realization must like watching their ass cheeks flutter as they blow the hot air because that's what they're doin'. The core of "the government that rules us" is filled with folk we went to school with, played sports with, went to church with perhaps, as they are our neighbors. It, particularly at the local and state Leviathanette level, generally reflects us.

Those who do the killing are responsible for their...

2009-11-18T13:05:02.426-07:00

Those who do the killing are responsible for their actions. No way to get away from responsibility for one's own actions.

Re: "Volunteer" military. Many posters h...

2009-11-18T12:18:45.922-07:00

Re: "Volunteer" military. Many posters have tried to make a big deal about the so-called "Volunteer" military. If the military were, in fact, "volunteer", then those who "volunteer" would be just as able to "un-volunteer". And as Will has pointed out, the "contract" which an enlistee enters into is, in fact, no contract at all; it is a document of enslavement.

The"Family", not unlike religion and gov...

2009-11-18T07:10:54.181-07:00

The"Family", not unlike religion and government, is a primary tool of the control junkies who work so very hard to destroy individual freedom! That's why religion and government have always worked so hard to integrate it into their power structures.

MoT writes: "This wouldn't be the same W...

2009-11-18T06:06:26.437-07:00

MoT writes:

"This wouldn't be the same WhiteBuffalo commenting over on Vox Day would it? He..he..he! Now that would be interesting"

I've never been to that website (until now, to see what you were talking about). So, no, that is not me.

Rick writes: "white buffalo, statistics asi...

2009-11-18T06:02:05.011-07:00

Rick writes:

"white buffalo,

statistics aside, let's apply some common sense here. does this woman looks like she filed for divorce to you?

being in the military, i see this a lot. usually new to the army enlisted females have casual sex with other soldiers and get pregnant. the male soldiers (whom i address as sperm donors) cut an run and leave the woman to raise the child on their own. IOT, the donated sperm and that's about it."

Rick, you have just reinforced my point - this woman is a single mom because of the choices she alone made. Again, it was her choice to allow a man (or men) to "donate sperm" to her and just walk away. Her choice, her responsibility.

Of course, if they would throw out the broads and ...

2009-11-18T00:24:53.570-07:00

Of course, if they would throw out the broads and let gays into the military, as every other military (including Israel) in the world does, (excepting Turkey,) the problem of pregnant female soldiers would not arise. Everyone would walk around with contented silly smiles on their faces.

Not only that, but the Greek gay-buddy legions were the most ferocious and best fighters in their Army. A man will die much sooner defending his lover than his President.

Thank aboudt it.

Then we had the case of Soldier of the Year Jose Zuniga:

"A staunch Republican and patriot who loved the Army, Sergeant Zuniga was a military journalist who served in the Gulf War and was honored as the Sixth Army's 1993 Soldier of the Year. A gay man whose wife was a lesbian, he had been hiding his sexual orientation behind the "happily married" facade. But living a duplicitous life was increasingly hard on him, and his crisis of conscience was dramatically resolved when he delivered a coming-out speech during the gay/lesbian demonstrations in April 1993 in Washington, D.C., before an audience of nearly a million*. The Army reacted swiftly, stripping him of his rank and threatening him with a court-martial for a minor uniform infraction."

* I'd like to see a straight man with that much guts - to open his soul, and risk his entire career and family affection and life to date, in front of the Capitol before a crowd of one million.

Sic Semper Fidelis.
Ivanna Mann.