Comments on Pro Libertate: Don't Call The Police: They'll Sue You

Melissa Meekma was my best friend. She was the mos...

2009-07-15T00:18:37.971-06:00

Melissa Meekma was my best friend. She was the most courageous, amazing person i have ever had the please of meeting and being friends with. Her being such the special, kind hearted person she was, lead to her death. The police department didn't provide her with the help that she needed after the shooting. She made such a deep impact on our community. On and off duty. I looked up to her in so many ways. As for the other 2 cops... She was more of a man than they will ever be. She was and forever will be my hero.
R.I.P. Melissa Meekma
I Love You

Melissa Meekma's funeral services will be held on ...

2008-12-12T17:04:00.000-07:00

Melissa Meekma's funeral services will be held on December 16, 2008 at 1100 at 3500 Green Valley Road in Placerville, CA for any interested parties.

Asa Eslocker is his name. He is a TV reporter who ...

2008-08-28T06:42:00.000-06:00

Asa Eslocker is his name. He is a TV reporter who got man-handled and arrested in Denver. I just watched the video on the net. Most of the cops involved looked like those steroid pumped-up creatures that have been written about here. When the MSM is having this happen, we're further along than we thought.

This only brings to mind what someone once said ab...

2008-08-26T02:55:00.000-06:00

This only brings to mind what someone once said about the military and what was the point of having this big and expensive entity and NOT use it. Hmmmm. Seems to me that if you really want to see crime go down that you lay off the majority of the police and let the citizenry be responsible for itself. I'm sure you'd hear socialists howling like banshees about all the "anarchy" to be unleashed and from statist republicans etc. bemoaning the lack of "law and ORDER"... oy vey! Seeing as they love to grease the machines wheels from that angle.

teacher.paris,you've had too much wine. and defin...

2008-08-24T06:55:00.000-06:00

teacher.paris,

you've had too much wine. and definitely too much cheese.

rick

Conspiracy of Silence - Illuminati Pedophiles in W...

2008-08-23T16:27:00.000-06:00

Conspiracy of Silence - Illuminati Pedophiles in Washington D.C. (documentary) - 55 min - May 3, 1994
Posted to Google by John Conner & The Resistance - www.TheResistanceManifesto.com

From Senator John Decamp: In mid-1993, after The Franklin Cover-Up had been circulating for almost a year, the British-based TV station, Yorkshire Television, sent a top-notch team to Nebraska to launch its own investigation of the Franklin case. Yorkshire had a contract with the Discovery Channel to produce a documentary on the case for American television. Finally, the big day came. Their documentary was to air nation-wide on the Discovery Channel on May 3, 1994. It was advertised in the TV Guide and in newspapers for that day. But no one ever saw that program. At the last minute, and without explanation, it was pulled from the air. It was not shown then, and has never been broadcast anywhere since. I have a copy of that program, which arrived anonymously in my mail in late 1995. When I watched this pirated copy, I could see clearly why the program had been suppressed. Conspiracy of Silence proved, beyond doubt, that the essential points I had stressed in the book (and more) were all true. Search Words: Conspiracy Illuminati New World Order Satanism«
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=3395321338401208062&q=conspiracy+of+silence&ei=j3s5SNPvNYjI-gHTxPHjAw&hl=en

Liberranter has a very good point. If a police of...

2008-08-22T19:53:00.000-06:00

Liberranter has a very good point. If a police officer has no legal obligation to act on behalf of a citizen, than these two officers knowingly, and willfully placed themselves in harms way.

With this in mind, the lawsuit is even more telling of the character of the officers involved if one remembers that at the Columbine and V Tech shootings, police WOULD NOT ENTER THE BUILDINGS, resulting in several unnecessary deaths. Police tend to behave quite cowardly unless in packs or are dealing with unarmed, or already subdued victims.

Ergo it stands to reason that since no cop would knowingly and willfully place themselves in harms way to protect the public, the fact that these two cops were wounded is prima-facie evidence that someone else must be at fault.

jk
Fruitland, ID

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Straightarrow,I try to never assume I'm an adult.j...

2008-08-22T19:39:00.000-06:00

Straightarrow,

I try to never assume I'm an adult.

jk
Fruitland, ID

si vis pacem, para bellum

Brianakara is exactly correct in her description o...

2008-08-22T19:36:00.000-06:00

Brianakara is exactly correct in her description of the way things are. It also happens to be a perfect explanation of the way things should not be. We currently operate with criminal justice and civil tort systems that have very little, if any, interest in justice or finding the truth. It could be argued that before any progress can be made in fixing the executive and legislative branches, the judicial branch must be purged and restored.

jk
Fruitland, ID

You make a point that can't be stressed too often:...

2008-08-22T14:34:00.001-06:00

You make a point that can't be stressed too often: the police are under no obligation to actively serve as bodyguards for other people.

Which makes me wonder: Would this be a valid point with which Mrs. Mies and her attorneys could respond to this frivolous lawsuit? After all, if the police are under NO LEGAL OBLIGATION (at least IAW the SCOTUS's tortured fiat) to respond to citizen calls of distress, did not then these cops put themselves in needless danger? It seems to me that the doctrine of comparative negligence fully applies in this case.

One more thing. The man was 35 years old. It wasn'...

2008-08-22T14:34:00.000-06:00

One more thing. The man was 35 years old. It wasn't like anyone could make him stand in the corner or tell him what he could or could not have.

Let's assume you are an adult. Just for argument's sake. Would you let your mother tell you couldn't drive?

Get up off your knees. The cops aren't going to notice that you are on their side and if they did, it wouldn't matter if you run afoul of them anyway.

Brianakira, surely you didn't think before you wro...

2008-08-22T14:29:00.000-06:00

Brianakira, surely you didn't think before you wrote. Please tell me that you didn't give this some thought and still came to the conclusions you did.

If there was some justification for these organisms masquerading as men to sue, the only defendant should be the estate of the murderer. Why didn't they sue the department, after all, the department assigned them hazardous duty and sent them to a risky environment. They would have more culpability in the injuries to these two cretins than would the widow, another victim of the murder of her husband. She had no authority to dispatch them to the scene. The law clearly states they had no duty to respond. Ergo, their boss has more liability than does she. And he has none, because these two whiny bags of offal could have refused to go. Or they could have found a job more in keeping with their characters, like pickpocket, for example.

If the fireman's rule fails thenwe can all expect ...

2008-08-22T13:56:00.000-06:00

If the fireman's rule fails then
we can all expect to see our
homeowner's insurance premiums triple; calling the cops will
require filing an insurance claim.

thanks, mr. grigg. i had allowed my outrage level...

2008-08-22T12:34:00.000-06:00

thanks, mr. grigg. i had allowed my outrage level to dip down to near slightly calm, but your posts and your work always serve to fill up my tanks. (my copy of liberty in eclipse still hasn't made it to the bookshelf 'cause i go back through it at least bi-monthly as a propaganda counter-measure.)

that american individuals own guns in large numbers does not provide me any measure of comfort. it would if i could see progress in winning the battle of ideas, if people were turning on to the ideas of freedom, individual rights, and voluntary cooperation as opposed to group coercion, but for any 1 that does come to those ideas, 100 more turn on to the idea of obama-mania. of course, if the battle of ideas worked, perhaps we could leave the guns in their cases, but if it came down to force of arms, i am on the side of the articles of confederation.

to brianakira,

the problem is practical, not theoritical. the police can't be trusted to police themselves, even having another group of police to police the original set, only means that the two groups have to cooperate to punish the unlucky people who chose to produce goods and services that they trade peacefully with others. the cops can't go to court, and the people that they are suing can't be assured anything close to a fair shake because the legal and law enforcement community is in fact such a small community. cops work with lawyers and judges on a daily basis, they have to work together to get their ends met, and that stacks the deck against someone who comes up against the legal system only once or on the rarest of occasions.
mr. grigg's read on this, as well as on all the law enforcement abuse, and how it is the near inexorable conclusion given the rules, incentives, and institutions that are in place, is quite perfectly correct.

I'm very concerned about abuse of power, but I don...

2008-08-22T09:58:00.000-06:00

I'm very concerned about abuse of power, but I don't get your take on this particular case.

It's a law suit. It's normal for people to try to make the maximum claim. Even when it seems like an exaggeration -- such as the "weapon's cache" -- it's still factually correct, and, since the opposing council will do everything to minimize every claim, it's common practice to maximize every claim, in the hope that the judge and/or dury will eventually get a fair picture of what happened.

In principle, I don't think there's anything wrong with police officers suing criminals and people who by design or neglect, assist criminals.

The opposite is true too. The police should be subject to civil law too.

I know that legalism is out of hand, and that bothers me, but since that's the way things are done in the US today, I don't see why police or victims of police should not be free to go to court to enforce their rights, and seek damages, especially if that's what it takes to improve a system.

Also, going over some of your other posts, I would have thought you'd agree with the idea that police should not be compelled to always take action. Of course they could be fired, depending on the circumstance, but I don't think they should just blindly follow orders, or be ready to sacrifice themselves under any circumstance.

People should know that ultimately we shouldn't depend on the government for protection. Exceptions would be the handicapped, elderly, or infants.

But I don't see why a cop should be put in danger to stop two gangsters (for example) having a shoot out. The main problem there would be innocent passers-by getting shot, but, e.g. if they were in the desert with no-one else around, should the cop take a side? or get between the two shooters?

Same with fire fighters. Why should they risk their lives saving, for example, a known arsonist who got trapped in a building he set on fire?

I've often had arguments with "pacifists" who think that people shouldn't have weapons or fight, but when you ask what someone should do if attacked, they say, "Call the police. That's their job." So they expect the police to show up, armed, and deal with the problem. Then, of course, if the police shoot someone, they'll be the first to condemn the police for their "aggression".

In this case you write about, why shouldn't the cops have an overwhelming strategic advantage? Wouldn't you want that?

It seems to me you've let your ideology or philosophy over-ride common sense here.

The facts of the case are not all known. Maybe the mother here is responsible. Maybe "a reasonable person" (the court standard) should have known that the son was a danger and shouldn't have firearms. Maybe a reasonable person would have given the police more information in the 911 call, and that might have led police to take a different approach, knowing more about the situation and he kind of person they were dealing with. That's what courts are supposed to be for, to discover facts.

I think you've read this case wrong. The cops' suit might be thrown out, or they might receive minimal redress, but I don't see anything wrong with them going to court to argue that they have suffered unduly because of the family's neglect and/or deception.

Good points Gulliver! Perhaps we Americans are fin...

2008-08-21T22:52:00.000-06:00

Good points Gulliver! Perhaps we Americans are finally sliding in the early stages weight loss and despair as the imperial kleptocracy shifts into overdrive to vacuum up what little wealth remains. Only when we become gaunt and furious will fundamental changes take place. Alas, the ballot box has apparently proven to be useless to the non-parasitic.

As far as the police lawsuit is concerned, friendly fire should be seriously investigated. I wonder if any bullets or pellets were recovered from the clothing or flesh of the injured officers?

I don't have the will to research it right now, bu...

2008-08-21T21:38:00.000-06:00

I don't have the will to research it right now, but I'm fairly certain there are more like 300 million guns in this country, not including what unreported NFA and GCA goodies have been hidden away.

Lemuel -- The fact that the American gun-owning po...

2008-08-21T21:09:00.000-06:00

Lemuel -- The fact that the American gun-owning population actually out-guns the combined police and military agencies of the world's governments is for me a source of quiet satisfaction, and no small optimism.

Could you contact me at WNGrigg[at]msn[dot]com?

Thanks!

Dear Mr. Grigg,At least the Nazis created an econo...

2008-08-21T20:46:00.000-06:00

Dear Mr. Grigg,

At least the Nazis created an economic miracle in Germany prior to WWII. Once the war began, the Gestapo allowed no opposition to the Party - you risked your life - but Germans were happy to live in a country that was plundering the rest of Europe, and to enjoy the highest level of prosperity on the Continent. Until things went south.

Today, we Americans live under our own Gestapo in a country that is plundering Iraq and the entire world economy via its tools the World Bank and IMF, but we peons see none of the loot - the politicians, the banks, the Gestapo, and the corporations are all in a predatory feeding frenzy, leaving not even the crumbs for us. In fact, we are part of the meal - it is our flesh they devour, our blood they suck from us, and our bones upon which they gnaw. And if one of us peasants gets in their way, they squash us like a bug.

Take comfort. The pendulum always swings - one day those hyenas will swing with it, from the many lampposts of Washington. There are 200 million guns in this country - thank God - and one day, justice will be served. But not yet. We are still too fat and happy.

Kind regards,
Lemuel Gulliver.

I agree that these deputies who filed this lawsuit...

2008-08-21T15:59:00.000-06:00

I agree that these deputies who filed this lawsuit are beyond contemptible and deserve the public's harshest scorn.

It's amazing how far we have come. The current attitude is 180 degrees from this.

Not really "amazing" when you think about it. Since self-preservation and protection is one obvious primary function of many pertaining to self-governing individuals, and being that Amerikans for decades (nevermind contemporary Amerikans) have been (or become) all but clueless about the critical concept of self-government. Ergo, it logically follows that people who've grown dependent on the police to protect them would be the predictable, indeed expected, result. After all, the populace has grown increasingly dependent on the State in other areas of life, so why would we expect it to make an exception in the case of protection?

Anyway, good pieces Will. I view the whole world as becoming increasingly insane, not just Amerika, although I do believe Amerika will likely suffer the greatest consequences for its sins. As is said, to whom much is given, much is required. I think nations, as well as individuals, are judged based on how much truth they know, the opportunities given them and did they take advantage of those opportunities with upright motives to do good.

Amerika has been blessed in so many ways and yet we've squandered it all and ignore the God who provided it all.

will,you know, your last comment. i've been think...

2008-08-21T15:35:00.000-06:00

will,

you know, your last comment. i've been thinking. is it really wise to get a burglar system installed in one's home if the police are going to show up? i guess a lot depends on the jurisdiction and the nature of the police force. otherwise, you're giving them carte blanche into your house. i think firms like ADT need to relook cases such as no knock raids and police misconduct. after all, their actions affect their sales.

gumby

You make a point that can't be stressed too often:...

2008-08-21T15:04:00.000-06:00

You make a point that can't be stressed too often: the police are under no obligation to actively serve as bodyguards for other people. They are supposed to be hired by us to be third parties representing laws protecting life, liberty, and property. Albert Jay Knock relates a story in "Our Enemy the State" where a mayor of a big city in the late 19th century responds to criticisms of police deficiencies. The mayor correctly responds that all citizens have a duty to be armed and to make arrests of criminals; and that in emergencies, it is the duty of the community to take responsibility for themselves and police their own streets. It's amazing how far we have come. The current attitude is 180 degrees from this. Now we have Mayor Daley of Chicago asking the military to come confiscate guns.