Comments on Pro Libertate: The Thin Blue Whine, Pt. II: The Crybaby Thugs of Maricopa County (Second Update, December 18)

Ex-JBS, do you believe in "Once saved, always...

2009-12-21T19:04:23.211-07:00

Ex-JBS, do you believe in "Once saved, always saved?"

And that all we have to do to be always saved is say (with all our heart, etc.) "I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior?"

Do you believe that all sin is the same in gravity?

I'd rather not engage in these discussions on here, so please shoot me an email. hansunddans at aol dotcom

-Sans Authoritas

Tom Joad, Please forgive~ I was speaking as a juve...

2009-12-21T10:05:01.546-07:00

Tom Joad,
Please forgive~
I was speaking as a juvenile trying to explain the frustration of the system.
The real answer is not able to be written in the space of this blog. It is a compilatation of hard work and much thought to remedy our system.
Certainly, we agree that the answer is not for an innocent man to be 'waived off' as the inevitable price of blind justice. But neither is it correct to state that the guilty should get away, or that society is better of in anarchy as you seemed to elucidate.
My point was only to show that this situation will never be solved by a humanist system because we as men are fallible.
I belive that the only real answer is the one that seems so repugnant to many on this forum. The Old Testament Law of God has been rejected by the Christendom of America and we are seeing the results in the need for this blog. Statism is going to continue to be the prevalent religion until we repent of false liberty and submit to the authority of Christ as King. Only then will we begin to stop the abuses we see in our justice system.

Ex-JBS, With all due respect, what other explaina...

2009-12-20T19:26:11.331-07:00

Ex-JBS,

With all due respect, what other explaination could there be with regards to the early JBS council members being members of the very same liberal Establishment which they were supposedly opposed to.
Also, why is it so doubful that Mr. Welch would set up the JBS as a CFR front? It would seem this would provided a most valuable service to the Conspiracy by founding an organization to prevent millions of Americans from discovering the true power behind the Illuminati. That being, organized Freemasonry.
This was the conclusion of the producers of "The Belmont Brotherhood" who were all, in fact, former high ranking members of the JBS.
In my own opinion, this conclusion does fit in quiet nicely with the diabolical Protocols of Sion.

Thank You

Ray Anderson

Sans Authoritas, God changes the hearts of those H...

2009-12-20T17:39:12.101-07:00

Sans Authoritas, God changes the hearts of those He saves and brings them into His kingdom. This is how the Christian is changed and starts wanting to do good, instead of evil. Making a 'decision' for Christ is only possible after our hearts are changed by God, since we do not even seek after God until we have a 'change of heart'.

The unsaved, however, are held back in varying degrees from their total depravity by Common Grace. As we are told, the rain falls on the just and the unjust.

Ray Anderson, in commenting further on what you wr...

2009-12-20T16:59:55.384-07:00

Ray Anderson, in commenting further on what you wrote, I hope this won't be straying too far off-topic, but since Will added that update about the JBS publishing a pro-Arpaio piece, I felt this was in keeping with the subject at hand, so here goes ...

Even though the Brotherhood of Belmont information that you asked about in a previous comment does seem to have some legitimate nuggets of truth, it appears to me to also make some fairly large leaps of logic, and it's doubtful that Robert Welch set up the JBS as a CFR front organization. But the fact that Welch was reportedly a Unitarian, as well as a transcendentalist (in other words, Welch wanted to believe in God, but only on his own terms, with passages in the Blue Book as proof), along with the fact that the JBS refuses to use Christian standards for its organizational guidelines (although they could easily do this and still allow non-Christians to join as long as those unbelievers didn't get on their soapboxes!) all adds up as a huge condemnation of the organization.

Right now, the JBS's so-called "leadership" is so consumed with pleasing the war-mongering evangelicals who signed this document -

http://clnfi.org/

- that they have actually become more irrelevant than before, if that is even possible!

On Will's blog that discusses just the JBS -

http://jbsrip.blogspot.com/

- he linked once to some of former JBS employee Erik Jay's writings, that contained this priceless jewel by Jay:

"... The John Birch Society -- always small but getting ever smaller, always wanting for funds but now verging on bankruptcy, always on the fringe but now poised on the brink of lasting obscurity -- is nothing more than a small, shadowy assemblage of hypocritical moralists who don't want Americans to be free so much as they want them to behave."

That pretty much sums it up!

Anon @2:46, Are you saying that Lucifer is "...

2009-12-20T16:34:08.386-07:00

Anon @2:46,

Are you saying that Lucifer is "pure evil?" If that were true, he wouldn't exist, because as we discussed before, evil can only exist in relation to a good. You would be attempting to have Satan exist in and through himself, in the way that God does. A heresy.

Satan is the father of lies, he is the most evil (least good, more properly) being in the universe, but he is not pure evil. That would reify evil, and evil is not a thing in itself.

-Sans Authoritas

Sans Authorita, If you think Satan has good in him...

2009-12-20T15:46:03.928-07:00

Sans Authorita,
If you think Satan has good in him , you are way off the mark. He is the epitome of evil who lives, until the Final Judgement, in direct war against God. There is no godd in him whatsoever. Scripture makes this quite clear.

Sans A wrote: "People always choose an evil u...

2009-12-20T12:36:21.345-07:00

Sans A wrote: "People always choose an evil under the aspect of a good."

DixieD wrote: "[i]Not always, but I would agree that it's often. It's called deception.[/i]"

Always. You perform an evil action (an act which has less goodness than it ought) because you think it would be good in some reason. You may steal $500 because while you know it would be wrong, you perceive it would be good for you to have it. Even if you try to choose to do evil for the sake of evil, you are doing it because you perceive that it would be good to do. You cannot choose evil for its own sake, because evil isn't a thing in itself. It only has its being in relation to the [i]good.[/i]

DixieD wrote: [i]Then why hold anyone to account for choosing an evil? From another angle, why would someone not choose a good when it is good, especially if they are inherently good by your own accounting? Could it be the person doesn't realize it's a good? OTOH, could it also be that someone could choose an evil because they view (feel) it as a good?[/i]

Why would you hold someone accountable for choosing an evil? Because sin causes harm to others, and it causes harm to himself. (Only certain kinds of sin (the actions, not the sin itself) should be suppressed with physical violence, of course: those that actually cause physical harm to others.)

The etymology of the word "sin" is "falling short of the mark." We have a goal. We are supposed to be particular people. What we do is who we are, and we are called to be good people, and thus, in every situation, we are called to do the greatest good. Our wills (that which chooses the good) and intellects (what which rationally identifies the good) should be honed to recognize and choose what is good.

Anyone who thinks certain actions are moral, when they rationally cause harm to others and themselves, are called "insane." Those who are not able to perceive reality as it is. All sin is insane. Quite literally, we are all acting insanely when we sin.

I might ask you: if human nature is completely rotten, how can [i]you[/i] claim to hold anyone accountable? It's not their fault: their nature is completely corrupt. Can you blame something for acting according to its nature? Can you blame a tiger for killing a lamb?

-Sans Authoritas

DixieD wrote: "As for me, I look at good and ...

2009-12-20T12:36:03.522-07:00

DixieD wrote: "As for me, I look at good and evil differently. Evil is rather an absence of good, as Burke also alluded to."

Which is precisely what I said.

But there is not pure evil, there can only be pure good. Insofar as something has existence, it has goodness. Even Satan has some goodness. God keeps everything in existence.

DixieD wrote:[i]From where do you distill that human nature is "mostly good?" Remember, good and evil ain't simply defined on the basis of extremes (as humans are wont to portray it). For example, would you suppose those who don't murder (by Leviathan's contemporary legal and always malleable definition), rape, and steal (grand larceny scale), yet would do such things as abort an innocent unborn child, steal their employer's pens and other miscellaneous doodads, etc. are good by the objective? Anyway, I think Sam C. adequately refutes your amusing assertion that human nature is mostly good, Sans A. [/quote]

The majority of humans do not rape. The majority of humans do not murder. The majority of humans do not rob. If they did, I might believe that "fallen human nature is more evil than good."

If human nature is rotten to the core, then there is nothing for Jesus to work with. There is no "humanity," only corruption. Humanity is good. God created it. Our fall corrupted it. But there are varying degrees of corruption. We need Jesus Christ to be who we are supposed to be, but that is not to say that human nature itself is wholly corrupt/destroyed. Only fallen. God works with our human nature. He works according to our human nature, and with his grace.

All apples have the tendency to rot. Does that mean that the nature of apples [i]is[/i] rottenness? No. It means that intelligent action from above must be taken to preserve the sweetness, the texture and flavor of the apple, so it does not rot. That is as far as that analogy can go, because human nature is already fallen, but is fortified by God's saving grace, not merely preserved. The human soul, through God's grace, is taken to a [i]super[/i]natural level. Beyond what we are capable of through our own human nature. That is not the same as saying "human nature is completely rotten."

-Sans Authoritas

We blame Arpaio for only one thing: still breathin...

2009-12-20T12:26:07.572-07:00

We blame Arpaio for only one thing: still breathing. We direct our reproofs to his victims, the Catholic peasantry of Phoenix. The Church has always supported just wars, and the long-overdue war against Arpaio is clearly just. Have you no men of violence? We hear each day of the violence your gangs direct against each other. Is there not a single bullet left over for this man? Remember that we cannot begin his rehabilitation—which features an eternity of breaking rock in a pink tutu, chained to The Night Stalker–until you send him to us. Surely, of the thousands of killers among you, there is one with a few spare hours. The saddest aspect of the case, for us, is that to date the only plot against Arpaio’s life to be uncovered was a false one, a classic case of entrapment, in which a vengeful inmate’s empty talk of killing the judge who sentenced him was steered, by Arpaio’s agents, toward killing Arpaio instead. What a bitter indictment of your community, O Mexicans of Arizona, that the one plot against this man should have to be generated by his own minions! We do not blame the monster for being a monster. We merely ask the monster’s victims, why does this monster still breathe? To be persecuted is no disgrace. The disgrace is that your tormentor still draws breath.

Mr. Grigg, It should come as no surprise to you a...

2009-12-20T09:43:41.087-07:00

Mr. Grigg,

It should come as no surprise to you as to the reason the JBS would be giving cover to the likes of Arpaio and the Maricopa County Sherrifs office. It is a simple case of "brothers" protecting "brothers" as both organizations are heavily influenced by Judeao-Freemasonry.
Also, since you were a longtime member of the JBS who was literally thrown to the wolves upon disagreement with the direction the organization was heading, why not expose the real founding and machinations therein, such as the facts of a large part of the founding members being high degree Freemasons and, more interestingly, some even being members of the CFR along with directors of the dreaded Federal Reserve Bank system?
I believe when one studies the plans of the Synagogue Of Satan, laid out in their Protocols of the Learned Elders of Sion, they will come to realize the true function of people such as Arpiao and most law enforcement in this country today, as it relates to world conquest under the cover of Judeao-Freemasonry

Thank You

Ray Anderson

To Tom Joad: ANYONE receiving largesse from govt ...

2009-12-19T09:48:20.149-07:00

To Tom Joad:

ANYONE receiving largesse from govt is part of the problem. Would you please point out where I said that it was only the little people receiving largesse that was the problem? You read into my words ideas not stated and not there. The specific issue of the piece by Mr. Grigg is immigration, not corporate welfare.

Goldman-Sucks and others of similar make up? Of course they are a big part of the problem. They enjoy privatized profits and socialized losses. Who can lose under such a system? We, the People, is who. Not them. Do you think I do not know, understand and are angered by this? Again, the topic is not PLUTOCRACY, but immigration.

The able bodied who can work, but dodges the work and yet is paid? Of course they are part of the problem. Their life is made easy by the labor of someone else, whose life is then made poorer by the parasite they carry. Do you think they are not part of the problem, as well?

My belief: if someone is down on their luck, it should be their fellow citizens or churches VOLUNTARILY helping them. Taxation, ie. theft by government is not compassion, it is theft. To believe govt is to help all is to deny the history and the reality of what actually takes place under such circumstances as well as to sanction massive theft.

Specifically to your note, Mr. Joad: do you mean to indicate that all the able bodied on one form of welfare or another are NOT a part of the problem? Do you mean to indicate that the only problems we have as a nation are the favored trading/banking houses?

As I stated, people wanting to come to a nation to work is a very good thing, indicating a growing economy and standard of living. To me, immigration reveals a good thing.

If it were up to me, ALL SOCIAL WELFARE, CORPORATE INCLUDED, would end today, the borders between Canada and the U. S. and between the U. S. and Mexico would be erased and the economic free-for-all would begin. In my estimation, this would be good for all, as well.

Pilgrim Pundit, You say: "I have become sick...

2009-12-18T23:51:41.492-07:00

Pilgrim Pundit,

You say: "I have become sickened by the degenerate scum that constatnly get away because we are too afraid that one good guy might get prosecuted."

Unfortunately, an all too common sentiment - until the one good guy turns out to be you.

You say: "It seems a price of Justice that....some innocents will be caught by our suspicion and relegated to the gallows."

Again, this is a price we are too easily willing to pay. Not only does it mean the victimization of an innocent person, but it also means that the real guilty one goes unpunished. Is that "Justice?"

It certainly IS justice in the mind of Sheriff Arpaio, who will arrest and torment someone just because they have the wrong skin color, or speak with the wrong accent, while 70,000 real criminals go unpunished.

No, frustrating as it might be, it is much better that the "degenerate scum" should get away with their crimes, rather than that the wrong, innocent person should go to the gallows for them. That makes the whole of our society guilty of the crime of murder.

If you believe in the moral code that Dixiedog proposes we are lacking, it is better for society as a whole to be victims rather than criminals or murderers.

If you believe in the foundational Christianity of our culture, then you believe that: "Be of good cheer, for God is not mocked." If our Justice fails, His Justice will prevail.

Kirk @ 9:01 am: You said: "Virtually all the...

2009-12-18T22:17:29.733-07:00

Kirk @ 9:01 am:

You said: "Virtually all the "problems" of immigration can be laid at the feet of those who have built the nanny state by decreeing all manner of responsibility for those paying and virtually no responsibility on the part of the recipients of the mandated largesse."

I take it by "recipients of largesse" you are referring to the CEOs of Goldman Sachs, Wells Fargo and Citibank, as well as GM and Chrysler, Exxon-Mobil, Halliburton, etc, etc? In other words the great corporate warthogs sucking at the tits of we the taxpayers?

Take a step back, brother, close your ears to the corporate propaganda in the corporate media, including Fox News, and look at the big picture. They want you to hate your unemployed, destitute, exploited brothers as leeches taking your taxes. No, brother, it is not the little guy sucking your blood, it is the fat cats and the trough feeders, those vampires who run the country. Most of them in the Republican Party, the party of big business and exploitation of the working assholes, (those who believe in working instead of stealing for a living.)

They will happily destroy this country and plunge it into civil war and class war and race war and religious war (helped along by people like Sherriff Arpaio) just so long as they can continue to rape and plunder its wealth and bugger its citizens - without lubricant.

They will rouse you up to hate the nigger in the White House and the greaseballs in the barrios and the ragheads in the mosques, so that while you are busy doing that, they can insert themsleves into your business and take their pleasure in your discomfort.

Wake up, brother. The pain you feel in your private parts comes not from your fellow peasants, but from the pleasure-taking of the corporate oligarchs and their political whores, hiding at your back where you can't see them and don't realize what they are doing to you.

Helped along by Sherriff Arpaio.

Much as I enjoyed the memo from The Boyz in Applet...

2009-12-18T19:25:29.659-07:00

Much as I enjoyed the memo from The Boyz in Appleton, I have to point out that Bill is actually in Copenhagen right now covering the UN's eco-socialism summit. That's a worthwhile use of his incomparable talents, albeit an increasingly rare one.

Mr Jasper has been relegated to janitorial duties....

2009-12-18T19:05:03.585-07:00

Mr Jasper has been relegated to janitorial duties. We feel that is the best use of his investigative journalistic skills
Signed
The Boyz in Appleton

Sans A.: Good is not an absence of evil. Evil is a...

2009-12-18T06:17:17.954-07:00

Sans A.: Good is not an absence of evil. Evil is a privation, a lack of a good that should be there. Human nature is mostly good. Evil is not a thing in itself, any more than a shadow is a thing in itself.

As for me, I look at good and evil differently. Evil is rather an absence of good, as Burke also alluded to.

From where do you distill that human nature is "mostly good?" Remember, good and evil ain't simply defined on the basis of extremes (as humans are wont to portray it). For example, would you suppose those who don't murder (by Leviathan's contemporary legal and always malleable definition), rape, and steal (grand larceny scale), yet would do such things as abort an innocent unborn child, steal their employer's pens and other miscellaneous doodads, etc. are good by the objective? Anyway, I think Sam C. adequately refutes your amusing assertion that human nature is mostly good, Sans A.

If people were mostly evil, you would see constant violence and chaos. Neighbors would be at the throat of neighbors 20 hours out of the day. We would live in concrete bunkers.

I posted a comment some time ago addressing that very thought as I see it. No need to waste space repeating it here.

As it is, human nature is good. God created it as good.

Then why would the Father send His Son to die as our Redeemer?

It is fallen now, but even so, a lack of good has not trumped our inherent human nature.

This is illogical. How could something be now fallen or lack good, yet supposedly be inherently good? Again, if that's so, why would the only perfect Being, Jesus Christ, allow Himself to be crucified?

The fact that you have to teach virtue to children does not mean that it is contrary to their nature, any more than teaching them to brush their teeth and saying their prayers is contrary to their nature.

The fact that you have to teach virtue (and not vice) to children is precisely because virtue is not inherent in their nature.

People always choose an evil under the aspect of a good.

Not always, but I would agree that it's often. It's called deception.

Nobody can choose an evil because it is an evil. It is ontologically impossible.

Your ontological foundation is a fallacy to begin with. Then why hold anyone to account for choosing an evil? From another angle, why would someone not choose a good when it is good, especially if they are inherently good by your own accounting? Could it be the person doesn't realize it's a good? OTOH, could it also be that someone could choose an evil because they view (feel) it as a good?

And the one who is/was deluded - whether by self and/or by other unscrupulous folk - into making wrong and/or unwise decisions is not excused and will nevertheless reap the bountiful harvest. Been there, done that, so I'm not just blowin' hot air.

I've said this for years, "the folks who ...

2009-12-17T19:39:50.936-07:00

I've said this for years, "the folks who run AZ and FL are artist at knowing how to scare old people into voting for them". That's where the real problem is in both of those states.
.

Scott, I'm a Catholic anarchist. Somewhat the...

2009-12-17T19:19:56.085-07:00

Scott,

I'm a Catholic anarchist. Somewhat the polar opposite of a totalitarian.

Neither do I have a racist counterpart.

-Sans Authoritas

Mr. Grigg, Where is Mr. Jasper and what is he doi...

2009-12-17T16:50:43.211-07:00

Mr. Grigg,

Where is Mr. Jasper and what is he doing? I'm truly shocked at some of the pieces that TNA has published in the last year.

When discussing the state of mankind it is necessa...

2009-12-17T12:14:13.128-07:00

When discussing the state of mankind it is necessary to have a basis to work from. My basis is the Bible as the inspired word of God. If you don’t believe that then none of the rest of my argument will mean anything to you.

Romans 3: 10-18
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
“Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace they have not known.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Paul is pretty clear on this point, he’s talking about everyone; you and me. Everyone is completely rotten to the core.

John 15:5
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.”

Without Christ we can do nothing. Without Him, none of us can be righteous. The basic idea behind big government is that we need someone (i.e. government) to make sure everything runs smoothly. But Biblically we see that man is completely corrupt. We need to let God do His thing and keep government in its rightful place: Under God.

PS. A note on the Home School Legal Defense Association. Michal Farris’s opinions are by no means representative of the opinions of all Home Schoolers or Christians. Farris tends to support centralized government (see his magnum opus “From Tyndale to Madison”). For an understanding of true Christian political thought, see Patrick Henry; you won’t be disappointed.

I'm not sure what I find more disturbing -- th...

2009-12-17T09:19:25.413-07:00

I'm not sure what I find more disturbing -- the machinations of Emperor Arpaio or the flatulent apologetics of the Christian Totalitarians and their racist brethren. Yeesh.

When police act like thieves and thugs, they shoul...

2009-12-17T09:14:39.040-07:00

When police act like thieves and thugs, they should be treated as thieves and thugs - especially so if we are to remain a society free of tyranny.

While I agree with DD that humanity has an imperfe...

2009-12-16T21:56:43.933-07:00

While I agree with DD that humanity has an imperfect moral (fallen) nature, this in no way invalidates or otherwise negates mankind's two greatest thirsts: Humanity's desire for self-autonomy and transcendent meaning. People desire to be their own king or queen -the quest for self autonomy and freedom- yet humans also desire to seek the ultimate transcendent Object -the quest for ultimate meaning to human existence. The problem is that people will replace the proper Object, i.e. the personal theistic God, with a god substitute, which often is the State itself. They will sacrifice their innate drive for self-autonomy to propitiate the State. Even American Christians themselves are all to eager to bow before it, thereby committing the grave sin of statolatry. So many Americans, Christian and non-Christian, have undercut their innate desire for freedom by yielding to an unhealthy desire to seek a proxy transcendent object. State authority is revocable, the Moral Law is not, but too many professing Christians have placed a reverence upon the State that only God rightfully deserves. It's true that one can swing too far the other way by focusing too much on our drive for human autonomy, thereby denying our thirst for God, and I also realize that pantheists and atheists will have different concepts of the transcendental object, but my point still stands. Americans of various worldviews have chosen the State as their transcendental object, rather than God, and it is this desire that suppresses our innate desire for liberty. -RW

The TNA was given to me, yet again, this year as a...

2009-12-16T21:26:34.847-07:00

The TNA was given to me, yet again, this year as a gift. I am half tempted to sent that fuckn rag of a magazine back and ask that it be canceled. But alas instead it will be used to probably line our cockatiel's cage.