Comments on Pro Libertate: "The Future is Too Good to Waste on Lies": Bowe Bergdahl's Moral Odyssey

I will be sending another donation very soon. Than...

2014-06-13T06:23:48.259-06:00

I will be sending another donation
very soon. Thank you again for all your efforts in giving a voice
to the voiceless.

Re-Posted here>

http://www.suijurisforum.com/wtf-t546-160.html#p39869

William, Thank you for reminding us what moral c...

2014-06-12T18:16:54.212-06:00

William,

Thank you for reminding us what moral consistency looks like.

This is a tough issue. First, the notion of a con...

2014-06-08T22:05:33.442-06:00

This is a tough issue.

First, the notion of a contract doesn't wash as far as I'm concerned, since the consent was not informed consent. Recruiters lie routinely to get naive and well-indoctrinated kids into the military. However, Bergdahl was homeschooled and has less excuse in that regard. I think his Dad sold him short also, by not questioning his motives.

He perhaps should have found a better way out, but that is assuming he knew how, and also assuming he wouldn't be "fragged" or otherwise dealt with before he could accomplish that. Let's not forget what goes on all the time over there: murder. One more murder would be swept under the rug.

I was faced with something similar during the Viet Nam war. I came to hate the war and everything it stood for. I served out my enlistment without getting sent there but I was seriously considering flying to Canada instead, if I was told to go, because I had no moral right to war on those people.

As to the folks let out of Gitmo, let's not forget (assuming they were terrorists AKA patriots at all, rather than just innocent bystanders), their actions are directly tied to the US government invasion and occupation of their countries, and the constant meddling in that region. Gitmo shouldn't even exist as a prison.

Mr. Grigg, I'm a long-term reader of yours and...

2014-06-08T21:58:54.804-06:00

Mr. Grigg, I'm a long-term reader of yours and appreciate your tight and trenchant style. This article brings a new dimension to the discussion. What are your comments regarding Mr. Bergdahl's possibly pro-Muslim statements at the white house? Also, it seems that the number of deaths and details involved in attempting to rescue Bowe from the Taliban is very important. Other perspectives to consider include: Oathkeepers perspective... were there other ways Bowe could have gotten discharged from the military while there?... the Gitmo angle (many of us Ron Paul and Oathkeeper types have thought Gitmo should have been closed long ago, yet when 5 Gitmo prisoners are released, we become up in arms. This whole story becomes increasingly complex and makes us all search our hearts and minds for answers. Also, what is the parity or sensibleness of trading 5 Taliban leaders for one American and what value does this put on the lives of other American soldiers now? Also, why was the swap done in the midst of the VA scandal which was getting very hot under Obama's backside? Wag the dog looks likely... Also, what about the American prisoner in Mexico that Obama is ignoring? Also, how is Obama regime using this situation to further its own agenda? I am very interested in the story from a worldview perspective (the family's Calvinist perspective and strong homeschooling is quite interesting). I appreciate you bringing to the fore this aspect of the story. What about Bowe's personal views on Obama? I'm inclined to think since he has Calvinistic views, that Obama is probably not highly thought of by Mr. Bergdahl. And how about the angle of individualism is good, but wise individualism is even better? Just a few thoughts perhaps as fodder or elements for your future articles. Thanks for making us think more deeply and thoughtfully, Mr. Grigg!

Thank you for this wonderful piece, Mr. Grigg. Yo...

2014-06-08T18:59:09.537-06:00

Thank you for this wonderful piece, Mr. Grigg.

You have managed to truly shed light on this issue and have brought many aspects of the ordeal that others have conveniently omitted.

I am especially grateful that you have remained true to your libertarian and anarchist vantages: you have chosen to let your philosophy dictate your conclusions, rather than shoehorning sentiments that don't square with the philosophy.

Too many other "liberty" minded writers are coming up short on this case: whether it be out of fear of chastisement from the media, or a depraved effort to garner more viewership, they have sold out and betrayed the message of Liberty and of the Individual.

Thank you again for staying objective and preserving your fidelity to the Cause of Liberty.

With many regards,

Jack O'Brien

Mr Grigg, I joined the army in 1976 and wanting to...

2014-06-08T18:44:35.247-06:00

Mr Grigg,
I joined the army in 1976 and wanting to be a peace officer growing up I joined as a MP. I went trough all the training and assigned to Presido, San Francisco. What an education, the corrupt, idiot fellow MPs and officers, then having to work along side SF police on Armed Forces patrol was too much, I wrote a letter to my CO and asked to be separated early after 2 years of a 4 year enlistment. I was reassigned to post maintenance and 6 months later was discharged with a general discharge under honorable conditions, big deal... even at 18 years of age I saw the utter hypocrisy that military service was and I wasn't even in a combat situation and I couldn't trust or obey those idiots, so, I have empathy for Bergdahl. Maybe he could have done it differently, who knows? I do know there is/was stigma thinking for oneself.
Keep up your writing, first class all the way.
Kevin, a fellow spudder...

Being in the military screws with your mind. He me...

2014-06-08T01:21:00.020-06:00

Being in the military screws with your mind. He messed up, bad. He did his time. His life has been forever altered. I don't see any reason to further beat up on the guy.
Bad situation from beginning to end.

I'm a former member of the US Army Reserve'...

2014-06-07T22:14:55.287-06:00

I'm a former member of the US Army Reserve's 79th Infantry Division, and the NJ Army National Guard's 50th Armored Division. I've never faced enemy fire, but I was honorably discharged as a Sergeant E-5. If you're in combat and don't like it, there are alternatives that don't involve desertion.
First, talk to a chaplain, and ask for reassignment to another post.
Second, notify your superiors in writing of your misgivings, and ask to be reassigned or discharged for the convenience of the government;
Third, if you're an officer, resign your commission.
Fourth, if you're enlisted, don't reenlist when your current enlistment expires.
The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) specifies that any member of the military can refuse to obey orders he or she considers immoral or illegal. I received such orders, and I refused to obey them, putting my objections in writing. I convinced my superiors the orders had been wrongly issued, and did not have to face a court-martial.
There is a way to bail, short of desertion, but you have to follow the rules.
I'm Dave Laibow, and you can contact me any time at "caballafamily[at]yahoo.com".

White Buffalo is right- but there's more. When...

2014-06-07T19:37:00.601-06:00

White Buffalo is right- but there's more. When you enter a contract with someone (and I'll pretend for a moment that "government" is someone you can enter a contract with), and you later find out that other person has lied to you, and is doing evil, you are under no obligation to hold up your end of the bargain, because the deal has already been broken by the other guy. Walk away with a clear conscience- but with the awareness that you may still be hunted down and killed. Thugs don't like to let people walk away- it's one way to know you are dealing with a thug, instead of a good guy.

Bill in IL said... I feel no sympathy for thi...

2014-06-07T17:59:50.119-06:00

Bill in IL said...

I feel no sympathy for this loser nor, for the first time, do I buy your argument Will. He joined the Imperial Legions of his own free will, too stupid to realize, until it was too late, he made the biggest mistake of his life. His father is also a moron for not trying to dissuade him from joining in the first place."

Accepting that you are right in that he made the biggest mistake of his life, at what point does one get to change his course to align it with his conscience? Or must one continue to go against one's conscience because it is his "duty"? Does duty trump conscience or vice versa?

Donna from North Dakota ~ Beyond immediate party ...

2014-06-07T15:59:37.458-06:00

Donna from North Dakota ~

Beyond immediate party politics, WHAT possible strategy makes this hapless young man worth the so-called 'Taliban FIVE'?

WHY bring him back only to demonize him with his family?

There has to be a lot more to this dealio.

The story of Bowe Bergdahl, as clearly presented b...

2014-06-07T11:04:50.458-06:00

The story of Bowe Bergdahl, as clearly presented by you, (and others who referenced it at LRC, such as Paul Craig Robert, Eric Margolis, and others) has provoked some very overdue discussion about our truly deep beliefs.

Sure happened in my family last night!

Lots of folks deeply invested in the War Party Mentality as being The Revealed Will Of God.

The arguments about violating a military oath at induction, which are brought forth to damn Bergdahl as a deserter (whether true or not), reminds me of our Lord Jesus' instructions to avoid oaths, and let your simple yes be yes. Whatever is more than this, He said is "of the Evil One."

The Lord Jesus does not require oaths nor appeal to them. Perhaps He does not even recognize them as binding. The Evil One does. Draw your own conclusions.

Robert Heid

Thank You William. Post is up at http://thejeffers...

2014-06-07T09:33:28.363-06:00

Thank You William. Post is up at http://thejeffersonpapers.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-future-is-too-good-to-waste-on-lies.html

Great writing.

As Jagg said the military is the worst place to jo...

2014-06-06T23:34:27.153-06:00

As Jagg said the military is the worst place to join if you have a habit of rethinking what you got yourself into. Joining the military means you become a soldier and your work is soldering.

The military isn't there to "make a man out of you" nor it is there to "give you a holiday at taxpayers' expense" rather you're there to get ordered around and go wherever the brass sends you.

Travis - yes, please re-blog this article, if you ...

2014-06-06T23:00:14.332-06:00

Travis - yes, please re-blog this article, if you see fit to do so. Thank you.

Permission to reblog?

2014-06-06T21:07:58.484-06:00

Permission to reblog?

This is a great article. It is unfortunate that B...

2014-06-06T17:02:05.404-06:00

This is a great article. It is unfortunate that Bergdahl did not file for conscientious objector status. Maybe he was not against all war, just aggressive war.

In any case, I especially liked your comment:

'If Bowe were to be killed by Afghans defending their country, his parents were expected to regard their son as an exalted hero, and their irreplaceable loss as a holy privilege.'

If it is illegal and potentially immoral for Afghanis to defend their lives, their lands, their religion and their families, this would rule out the case of National Defense as a legitimate reason for fighting in war. This would make Bergdahl a possible "conscientious objector" even by USG definition.

Thanks for such great articles! My favorites are always the ones that demonstrate police corruption to be systemic, rather than individual. I think this best demonstrated when you post articles about the repercussions good cops face from their departments when actually stepping in to defend the innocent from their colleagues in blue.

I am a theological pacifist earnestly seeking to be congruent in action and belief. I served in the United States Navy and applied for conscientious objector. As a Christian, the incentives of public justice discourage personal responsibility and accountability through the process of repentance. I believe this to be the case when repentance is discouraged, even in law enforcement who should be held to higher standards, exactly because private initiative to reconcile victims is used as evidence against offenders, rather than evidence to exonerate offenders. It makes sense in my mind, as a result of this fact, that police and criminals alike are always seeking out the technicalities in the law and for mitigating circumstances to justify their mistakes and crimes. Were the State to recognize private initiative to reconcile victims (ie. repentance), their might be more personal responsibility and accountability in communities and the officials protecting and serving them. I guess we just need to return to a private system of justice where repentance was encourage than the present public system that discourages it.

Keep up the good work Mr. Griggs!

This is why I will never join the military back in...

2014-06-06T16:00:41.957-06:00

This is why I will never join the military back in my younger years i had the dumb as shit way of thinking the military were honorable. But not anymore watching the many things they committed and how they bribe people into the service.

Most today only join due to benefits take these away and they will stop joining.

The military now is no better than hired mercenaries.

I feel no sympathy for this loser nor, for the fir...

2014-06-06T09:44:30.070-06:00

I feel no sympathy for this loser nor, for the first time, do I buy your argument Will. He joined the Imperial Legions of his own free will, too stupid to realize, until it was too late, he made the biggest mistake of his life. His father is also a moron for not trying to dissuade him from joining in the first place.

Then we have the whole thing of Oblah blah breaking yet more laws and violating the Constitution yet again over this fiasco. All, I suspect, to divert attention from the latest scandal of this imposter's reign, the VA death machine.

The entire episode is appalling and disgusting from every angle.

I don't buy your argument. It's a good fo...

2014-06-06T00:57:44.704-06:00

I don't buy your argument. It's a good for someone forced into war slavery, but a bad one for a man who walked away with his responsibilities that he freely entered into. He could have as easily gone to his commander and refused any further duty until they shipped him stateside for court marshal. Instead he ran away from his responsibilities. That's not a man worthy of sympathy.

You're quite right about all the bullshit being spewed about his family in the media though.

Post is up. First part is included, with links to...

2014-06-05T22:12:21.052-06:00

Post is up. First part is included, with links to PL for the rest. Thanks again, Will. I consider this post to be of very great importance, spiritually. --RH

Those rendered insane by the disease of statism (w...

2014-06-05T21:17:52.660-06:00

Those rendered insane by the disease of statism (who will doubtlessly be posting vile comments on this post for years to come) are crying "deserter!"- I am thinking of him as a runaway slave, instead; due the same respect. Yes, he was tricked into being enslaved, but that just counts against the slavers, not him.

Robert, thank you for your interest, and the answe...

2014-06-05T20:02:11.177-06:00

Robert, thank you for your interest, and the answer is yes.

Once again, thank you.

Will, do I have your permission to "guest pos...

2014-06-05T19:59:23.124-06:00

Will, do I have your permission to "guest post" this essay, in its entirety or in part, at my Sycamore Three blog? I will include links to your site.

Thanks, and awaiting your reply.

Robert Heid

Very moving. I have been traveling for the past ...

2014-06-05T19:38:57.456-06:00

Very moving.

I have been traveling for the past month. This week I finally have been able to watch the news. When this came up I was appalled by his condemnation, the call for his execution, the cries of treason and traitor. Reason and compassion no longer matter in this country.

I was worried and concerned before. Now I'm afraid for myself and others with different opinions.