Comments on Pro Libertate: Allen West: Has the Militarist Right Found its New Warlord?

That Allen West that is riding a white horse, and ...

2014-08-30T14:12:00.742-06:00

That Allen West that is riding a white horse, and bragging and so on and so on well let's see what he is all about. He was deployed to Kuwait in 1991 and Iraq in 2003. In 2003, West was charged in an incident that involved the beating and simulated execution of an Iraqi police officer. West was fined $5,000, accepted a Non judicial punishment and allowed to retire as a lieutenant colonel after an Article 32 hearing. An Article 32 hearing is a proceeding under the United States Uniform Code of Military Justice, similar to that of a preliminary hearing in civilian law. Its name is derived from UCMJ section VII ("Trial Procedure") Article 32 (10 U.S.C. § 832), which mandates the hearing.The UCMJ specifies several different levels of formality with which infractions can be dealt. The most serious is a general court-martial. An article 32 hearing is required before a defendant can be referred to a general court-martial, in order to determine whether there is enough evidence to merit a general court-martial. Offenders in the US military may face non-judicial punishment, a summary court-martial, special court-martial, general court-martial, or administrative separation.While serving in Taji, Iraq, West received information from an intelligence specialist about a plot to ambush his unit. The alleged plot reportedly involved Yahya Jhodri Hamoodi, an Iraqi police officer. West had his men detain Hamoodi.Soldiers testified that in the process of detaining Hamoodi, he appeared to reach for his weapon and needed to be subdued. Hamoodi was beaten by four soldiers from the 2/20th Field Artillery Battalion on the head and body. West then fired his pistol near Hamoodi's head, after which Hamoodi provided West with names and information, which Hamoodi later described as "meaningless information induced by fear and pain." At least one of these suspects was arrested as a result, but no plans for attacks or weapons were found. West said "At the time I had to base my decision on the intelligence I received. It's possible that I was wrong about Mr. Hamoodi."West was charged with violating Articles 128 (assault) and 134 (general article) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. During a hearing held as part of an Article 32 investigation in November 2003, West stated, "I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers." The charges were ultimately referred to an Article 15 proceeding rather than court-martial, at which West was fined $5,000. Lieutenant Colonel West accepted the judgment and retired with full benefits in the summer of 2004. At his hearing, West said that there were no ambushes against American forces in Taji until he was relieved of his leadership post a month later. On May 16, 2013, Fox News announced it had hired former Florida Representative Allen West as a contributor to offer political commentary during the network's daytime and prime time shows. In a statement, Executive Vice President of Programming Bill Shine said, "Representative West’s congressional and military experience along with his fearless approach to voicing key issues will provide a valuable point of view to the FOX News lineup. SO HE IS NOT A LEADER HE IS A FOLLOWER. if YOU ONLY WNAT TO WORK FOR SOMEONE WHO YOU WILL PROVIDE a valuable point of view to FAUX news that makes you a follower not a leader that is why the Army kicked you out, and you were never a leader only a follower.

this guy is ok. he has been in battle and guys who...

2011-06-01T22:35:09.045-06:00

this guy is ok. he has been in battle and guys who have been in battle are much less likely to send others into battle. Look at Obama, Bush II, Clinton, etc., etc. if you need more proof.

The other thing I like about him is he has what islam is really about all figured out and he does not seem to be a puppet of the banks.

Most of this post seems to embellish and attribute to him more hawkishness than is there.

Mr. Grigg, No I didn't see his recent post pr...

2011-05-01T11:46:05.532-06:00

Mr. Grigg,

No I didn't see his recent post prior to mine. I agree it isn't a competition but your statement "I can learn something from just everybody who posts here, including both you and Parmeniclitus." does support my argument that you are indeed the smartest guy in the room!

White Buffalo- "Your obvious attempt to show...

2011-05-01T10:42:46.293-06:00

White Buffalo-

"Your obvious attempt to show you're the smartest guy in the room has failed. Mr Grigg still is."

It could also be that I felt impelled to add something to a conversation between other smart adults who hold at least some similar views to my own. Whether or not my contribution will be considered "smart" by those others remains for those others to say...

Good day.

White Buffalo, my friend, I really appreciate your...

2011-05-01T10:23:37.411-06:00

White Buffalo, my friend, I really appreciate your kind words -- but this isn't a competition. :-) I can learn something from just about everybody who posts here, including both you and Parmeniclitus. By the way, did you see the latter's most recent contribution?

To Parmeniclitus: Of course you didn't say an...

2011-05-01T10:14:09.093-06:00

To Parmeniclitus:

Of course you didn't say anything such as submission is strength; that's why I didn't use quotation marks. But you did indeed allude to it by defending West's obvious support of the idea that Spartan women are to be considered strong because they willingly gave up their children to the state, thereby advancing the idea that the individual is subservient to the state.

And the only point Mr. Grigg was making was that West thinks submission to the state is to be considered an act of bravery when it is not.

Mr. Grigg was not asking for a philosophical conversation on "what is strength?"

Your obvious attempt to show you're the smartest guy in the room has failed. Mr Grigg still is.

Mr. Grigg- Thank you for your reasoned response. ...

2011-05-01T09:08:13.450-06:00

Mr. Grigg-

Thank you for your reasoned response. Judging by your writing I would expect nothing else.

You wrote: "Incidentally, if West understood patriotism, rather than statist militarism, he would understand that in the Iraqi conflict, he and the other Americans were playing the role of Persians, not Spartans."

You will find no disagreement with me here, and this is something I've considered over the years. This also brought to mind the hullabaloo that arose on the part of the ever-so-touchy upon the release of that ridiculous movie "300." The chin-rubbing "intellectuals" knew it had to be anti-Arab somehow, but trying to figure out who actually constituted the "Persians" and "Spartans" proved to be quite a hermeneutic nightmare given the circumstances in the Middle East...

No, whitebuffalo, the "doublethink" is p...

2011-05-01T01:21:50.735-06:00

No, whitebuffalo, the "doublethink" is placing something in my verbiage that simply isn't there and pretending it is.

In no way did I say any such thing as "submission is strength" or even allude to such nonsense.

Spartan culture,like every culture, contained a certain amount of "submission. " There are aspects that are beyond the purview and control of each individual. This doesn't mean the Spartans had no rational actors, they simply acted within a continuously developing framework as all men do. And I'm willing to bet,you "submit" everyday to something or other...Or else you didn't just write in English. :-)

At any rate, I wasn't siding with West (of whom I'm not as familiar with as Mr. Grigg seems to be), or Spartan society per se (which I do have some familiarity), but only judging differently from what Mr. Grigg interpreted within the context of the WIN video. My comments centered around another idea, namely that strength is multidimensional and manifests in a myriad of manners.

As I said before, Spartan women did, in my eyes, have far more strength and character than our perennially "victimized" strain of femininity today that submits itself in its own way and to the detriment of others. I prefer a Spartan woman's sense of strength *in this context* to that of a socially enfeebling and hypocritical "equality." That is what I stated in regard to West's comments at WIN.

In addition, I never said there were no other types of strength (a la Grigg's example of Antigone)that are admirable or even better suited to today's standards. It depends upon what facet of today's social circumstances of which we are speaking and to which facet of another alien society we are comparing it to, or even in differing periods within our own.

Hey Will, Don't fret... RP is going to be ele...

2011-05-01T00:45:38.066-06:00

Hey Will,
Don't fret... RP is going to be elected...in order to bring the Fed down... "controlled demolition-style".
Only time will tell whether he knows this or not.
I have faith in the man. May God protect him from the machinations of the shadow elite.
Bad things trends to follow the abolition of the central banks.
When Americans get too uppity, the oligarchs terms to smack them down.
Final thought...any candidate that opposes total openness and freedom on the internet...is not a friend of the people. The young generation will realize this. That's the key.

A superb response to Parmeniclitus Mr.Grigg. But I...

2011-04-30T19:52:38.876-06:00

A superb response to Parmeniclitus Mr.Grigg. But I would like to thank him for another excellent example of doublethink: submission is strength! The prophet Orwell would be proud.

Simply because West extols the strength of Spartan...

2011-04-30T17:19:56.972-06:00

Simply because West extols the strength of Spartan women it does not follow that he, therefore, extol the society as a whole... The moral question is wholly a different question than the points he is bringing up.

That's entirely true. It could be that West admires the Spartans' tenacity in holding the pass against a vastly superior invading force (I certainly do, while I abhor pretty much everything else about that society).

Here are two very important reasons why I reached the conclusions I did about West:

The specific example West used to illustrate the "strength" of Spartan women was their willingness to surrender their children into the hands of a totalitarian military apparatus. I think the proper description of that trait is "conformity" not "strength."

A genuinely strong woman worthy of commendation would be willing to kill anyone who came for her son, and would fight to protect him as long as breath remained in her body.

Although Antigone is a work of fiction, her costly defiance of the king in defense of her family is a far better role model for strong women.

West has made it clear that he believes the war against "Islamo-Fascism" is should be the central defining principle of American society for the foreseeable future. When somebody like that starts extolling the supposed virtue of surrendering children to the State, I reach for the nearest firearm.

Incidentally, if West understood patriotism, rather than statist militarism, he would understand that in the Iraqi conflict, he and the other Americans were playing the role of Persians, not Spartans.

Dear Mr. Grigg- Let me begin by stating that, whi...

2011-04-30T09:37:02.490-06:00

Dear Mr. Grigg-

Let me begin by stating that, while I'm no supporter of West, nor am I Christian, I do hold liberty in the highest regard and so I find myself visiting your blog with some regularity. Your perspective and style are both engaging and why I continually return.

In this case, however, I think your Christianity has blinded you and thus your interpretation of West is off base. Simply because West extols the strength of Spartan women it does not follow that he, therefore, extol the society as a whole. Whether or not the society, the reasons for their strength, was "good" or "bad" are beside the fact that they were strong and provided the backbone of Spartan society in so many ways. The moral question is wholly a different question than the points he is bringing up.

We also have to bear in mind the context in which he is speaking. Our present "society" finds us with women who have largely swallowed statist Progressivism wholesale and which fetishes them as perpetually weak, victims of ever-present male aggression, which is even more the case with "minority" women. Rather than making feminine strength a notion to strive after, we have many women who prey upon the male populace that is itself considered in a state of semi-criminality by the very fact of being male. This has done nothing but wreak havoc upon family, culture, and society as a whole, as well as aiding the idea that being a "victim" is a perpetual, static ontological category that can never change, that can never become strong in its own right without the aid of the State.

Simply because West is extolling the virtue of strength found amongst Spartan women does not entail that he must therefore embrace the whole of Spartan society. Being that he was a military man (which may have been the means for him to become educated rather than a thug or bum, depending on his circumstance)it doesn't seem spurious to me to promote strength rather than weakness, or that he would simply be more informed about Sparta than many other societies.

My point is, that simply because we may admire some traits in a person, or in a social structure, doesn't mean we admire the person/society in toto.

Thank you for your time.

The Mongol Hordes were full of extremely tough war...

2011-04-29T11:06:32.529-06:00

The Mongol Hordes were full of extremely tough warriors that completely annihilated their opposition. They chewed through much of Asia almost uncontested. They had discipline and a fierce sense of warrior identity.

Maybe Mr. West can suggest we be more like them?

To people like Reg T, "honor" is earned ...

2011-04-29T09:43:53.264-06:00

To people like Reg T, "honor" is earned by donning a imperial costume and punishing designated Evildoers on behalf of the Glorious, Almighty, Omnipotent State. Will should be proud of the fact that that sniveling little authoritarian boot-licker thinks he has less "honor" than Allen West has "in his little finger."

Apparently, Reg T sees a man who would steal child...

2011-04-29T09:21:28.270-06:00

Apparently, Reg T sees a man who would steal children from their families to be raised by the violence-worshiping state as the epitome of "honor". Considering that most of us here would see that as the pure opposite of honor, I see no point in discussing the matter with him. To our respective sides, the crucial word represents completely antonymous concepts.

I await your response, thank you. Don't hold ...

2011-04-29T07:42:54.923-06:00

I await your response, thank you.

Don't hold you breath on that, unless you enjoy blacking out and the color of skin turned blue.

Reg T said: "...(West) has more honor in his...

2011-04-28T19:45:06.310-06:00

Reg T said:

"...(West) has more honor in his little finger"..."

"But you sicken me when you speak such tripe about your betters."

A few questions then for you:

What is your definition of "honor"? And how exactly does West have more than us?

Who exactly is our "betters"? And how is it that they are our betters?

I await your response, thank you.

Will... "and record I respect has no measurab...

2011-04-28T16:50:38.682-06:00

Will... "and record I respect has no measurable chance of winning"

That pretty much sums up the mentality of the Statist trolls who on occasion flock over here. It IS all about winning. Truth and honesty be damned if can you parrot a false religious air, tickle the ears of simpletons, prance about with your medals on your sleeve and ,should you get ensconced in the whore house on the Potomac, you make damn sure you kill enough people "over there" to get into the Imperial history books. Worked in the past, working now, will work again.

This site is for freedom-loving grownups. People ...

2011-04-28T13:38:11.750-06:00

This site is for freedom-loving grownups.

People of that kind are my preferred company -- but I certainly won't turn away readers of any persuasion: "Come, let us reason together," and all that. :-)

Go back to your useful rants about out of control ...

2011-04-28T13:35:01.332-06:00

Go back to your useful rants about out of control law enforcement (true - I use to be a peace officer and agree with you)

First of all, you were never a "peace officer," which has traditionally been defined as one who uses his limited and conditional authority to protect the rights, lives, and property of the citizenry. There have been no people serving in an official capacity for years, if not decades, with exceptions of a few isolated localities in which the local sheriff was aware of his proper role as a defender of the Constitution and a barrier against lawlessness by the government or its agents.

What you were was a law enforcement officer, an enforcer of positivist fiats from the local, state, and no doubt occasionally federal government, fiats which on ninety-nine point nine nine nine occasions out of one hundred were completely unconstitutional and thus unlawful. The tenor of your post alone reveals this to be the case (which is why I don't by your fatuous BS statement about your agreeing with "out of control law enforcement." Nice try.)

Now why don't you mosey on over to doubledigitiq.com (a.k.a. http://www.officer.com) and spew your arrogant, authoritarian nonsense to an audience that will appreciate it and who will lap up every lying keystroke of your posts? This site is for freedom-loving grownups.

West doesn't hold a candle to the Chicago Jesu...

2011-04-28T11:04:32.832-06:00

West doesn't hold a candle to the Chicago Jesus. Obambi is the greatest human being ever to walk the face of the earth, his intellect could melt a glacier and he is a cool rockstar *hee hee*. The most shocking thing about the birth certificate was that he was born, I thought divine providence gifted him to us the unwashed prole masses. All praise Comrade Kenya the one.

I still think there is a legitimate chance that th...

2011-04-28T10:55:43.663-06:00

I still think there is a legitimate chance that this country will be dismembered in our lifetimes.

Who's your man in 2012, Will? I'm not undu...

2011-04-28T07:09:31.746-06:00

Who's your man in 2012, Will?
I'm not unduly preoccupied with the matter of choosing a short-term dictator, and if I were I wouldn't be inclined to choose between a Marxist "community organizer" and a militarist war criminal.

The only presidential candidate whose views, values, and record I respect has no measurable chance of winning.

I dunno here, Will. You're making some pretty...

2011-04-28T01:45:16.154-06:00

I dunno here, Will.

You're making some pretty big leaps of logic with this one. I mean, Sparta (a culture that was not out of its contextual place or historic milleu- how about you spend some time doing research on them other than to prove your points...), Hitler, and the Soviets, all in one?

Not to worry. Any person capable of defeating Obama in '12 will be so ripped up and de-legitimized by infighting that it'll be another party for Obama in '12.

Then, at least instead of a "Homo-worshiping, genocidal, kidnapping, communist Nazi" (that is, after all, essentially what you're saying here), you'll have a True Believer Marxist activist in the white house continuing his dismantling of America for another four years.

Won't you be a happy guy then?

Who's your man in 2012, Will?

We can find quotes and statements made by any candidate to prove any point we wish. Here's an idea- Let's engage them all with MLRS salvos before they ever get off the ground. That'll help things. The cause of liberty will be greatly advanced when Obama is re-elected, I'm sure.

Sometimes there's no knight in shining armor. Sometimes the guy who wins is barely more palatable than the one who was defeated.

We're not taking this nation back by electing the magical fairy libertarian candidate. It's just not going to happen. We're too far gone for that.

At this point, I support no candidate. I do, however, oppose Obama.

Obama will win in 2012, I am sure. That sucks.

Bet on it.

AP

I use to have some respect for Mr. Grigg, but all ...

2011-04-28T01:19:03.460-06:00

I use to have some respect for Mr. Grigg, but all I can say now is, you folks sure are impressed with yourselves.

I don't agree with everything West says or does, but he has more honor in his little finger than you folks ranting your ridiculous Libertarian demagoguery.

Go back to your useful rants about out of control law enforcement (true - I use to be a peace officer and agree with you) and the fact that we _shouldn't_ be involved in foreign wars. But you sicken me when you speak such tripe about your betters.

Yes, go ahead and call me a troll so you can avoid facing the truth. That's fine with me.