Comments on Pro Libertate: The "Water Cure" for Mancow Disease

I'm impressed with your article's thorough...

2009-06-16T15:22:51.580-06:00

I'm impressed with your article's thoroughness. I also clicked on it because of its excellent title, having remembered watching "the water cure for mancow disease". LOL.

Dave, I agree only to a point. There are plenty o...

2009-05-30T04:21:10.409-06:00

Dave, I agree only to a point. There are plenty of book and verse memorization types who know things backwards and forwards and STILL dance to deaths tune as if on cue. Being "educated" either in the way of the world or theology is no guarantee that someone wouldn't just as soon put a bullet in the back of your head. Stalin, Mao, Lenin etc. were educated but fundamentally and see how they turned out! Deep down when you have someone who thinks they know more than anyone else, and feels the need to put people in their place either religiously or socially, then you've got a prime card carrying candidate for totalitarianism.

One thing I've come to notice is that mainstream C...

2009-05-28T12:58:32.075-06:00

One thing I've come to notice is that mainstream Christians support all of this claptrap because they don't know anything about the Jesus they claim to worship. Nothing about His teachings, His life, His ministry, or even His Atonement. All the "good" Christians have to do is provide some lip service and attend weekly services while dust-covered Bibles lay on the bookshelf at home and not once do they open their mouths in prayer.

If you asked a random group of people who profess to be Christians to name the first four Books in the New Testament, don't be surprised if you encounter more who can't than who can.

"How now, thou American, frustrated crusader, do y...

2009-05-28T10:39:46.194-06:00

"How now, thou American, frustrated crusader, do you know where you are?
Is it security you want? There is no security at the top of the world.
To thine own self a liberator, to the world an alarming portent, do you know where you are going from here?" --Garet Garrett, writing in the 1950's

The same could be said of those in favor of war. T...

2009-05-28T07:57:27.503-06:00

The same could be said of those in favor of war. The loudest proponents are usually the most insulated from its harsh realities. I distinctly remember at my last church, on the eve of the Iraq war, the only individuals who prayed that the war would not take place, was an elderly Dutch couple who had lived through the Nazi occupation of their homeland. They knew firsthand the "hell" that they had experienced those many years ago and clearly were not keen on seeing other poor souls experience the same type of "liberation".

S. Bevin

Thank you for your article.

2009-05-28T06:13:55.154-06:00

Thank you for your article.

In response to your posting at 830 Lemeulle G : We...

2009-05-27T20:05:17.053-06:00

In response to your posting at 830 Lemeulle G : Well said !!!!

By Paul Joseph Watson The real reason behind Obam...

2009-05-27T00:37:06.439-06:00

By Paul Joseph Watson

The real reason behind Obama’s reversal of a decision to release the torture photos has been almost completely ignored by the corporate media - the fact that the photos show both US and Iraqi soldiers raping teenage boys in front of their mothers.

The Obama administration originally intended to release photos depicting torture and abuse of detainees in Afghanistan and Iraq by the end of May, following a court order arising out of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit first filed by the ACLU in 2004.

However, a reversal of Obama’s decision was announced this week, after he “changed his mind after viewing some of the images and hearing warnings from his generals in Iraq and in Afghanistan that such a move would endanger US troops deployed there,” according to a Washington Post report.

In response, the ACLU charged that Obama “has essentially become complicit with the torture that was rampant during the Bush years by being complicit in its coverup.” The Obama administration has also sought to protect intelligence officials involved in torture from prosecution at every turn.

The primary reason why Obama is now blocking the release of the photos is that some of the pictures, as well as video recordings, show prison guards sodomizing young boys in front of their mothers, both with objects as well as physical rape.

Torture isn't just a certain amount of subjective ...

2009-05-26T23:24:01.058-06:00

Torture isn't just a certain amount of subjective pain being inflicted. It's an objective action. A means to an end. Usually, it is inflicting suffering as an attempt to coerce the will. A horrible act. Something God himself won't do.

A loathsome age. Full of violent, worldly individuals who do vile things to God's creatures, and ascribe the adjective "good" to their damnably evil acts.

I don't think God will suspend the just consequences of our horrible actions for much longer. The world is a child, waiting for its father to come home and dispense justice.

Maranatha.

Once I had to watch an episode of 24 with Queefer ...

2009-05-26T22:26:19.058-06:00

Once I had to watch an episode of 24 with Queefer Sutherland it was torturous!

It all boils down to selfishness. This has become ...

2009-05-26T21:30:50.030-06:00

It all boils down to selfishness. This has become a nation and a people dedicated to greed and selfish pleasure. Only such a person can look upon the suffering of another human being and feel nothing, or can look upon the suffering of animals, our brothers in the web of life, and feel nothing.

Back in the 40's and 50's this nation had glaring faults. Familial abuse and alcoholism took place behind closed doors, with a happy face presented to the world. Blacks were still arrogantly treated by whites as inferior. Institutions of government were corrupt and bigoted.

Yet, when WWII was coming to an end, millions of German soldiers and civilians fled west to surrender to the Americans rather than be captured by the Russians, because they knew they would be treated humanely, fed, and cared for. They were not disappointed, and even today most Germans of that generation look affectionately on Americans for the kind treatment they received at a personal level, even though we had bombed their cities to rubble.

Where did we go astray?

I believe, in the vile pursuit of enormous money, Hollywood and Television have corrupted our moral ideals, glorifying greed, selfishness and violence to the children of the last 3 generations in America. And we have exported our soulless, mindless, inhuman, crass materialism through movies, TV and Madison Avenue to the whole planet. Since 1945, every cultural shift starts in America and spreads outwards from here.

In 1960 John Kennedy told us, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask rather what you can do for your country," and by extension, your neighbor. In 1985, Gordon Gekko told us, "Greed is good."

Finally, the children of the movie and television era grew up to become our Presidents, Vice Presidents, Supreme Court Justices, Senators, and Representatives, not to mention our police, judges, prosecutors, and military.

We do not like what they have become. We do not like, either, what we have become.

I do not believe there is anything we can do about it, except wait for the system to destroy itself, which it certainly will. Meanwhile we can conduct ourselves with dignity and generosity towards others, and raise our children to do the same. That's all.

Lemuel Gulliver.

God's gift to the world the indispensable nation d...

2009-05-26T18:46:12.163-06:00

God's gift to the world the indispensable nation doesn't torture! Who told you that! Mom and apple pie good guys never torture because torture gleamed information is usually worthless. History has ended (Paging Mr Fukiyama) and only the people of the North American land mass have a right to exist.

Will: Will you please tell Dr. Stan that the link...

2009-05-26T18:26:30.612-06:00

Will: Will you please tell Dr. Stan that the link to your Friday program is broken?

(ha ha Will Will)

Breaker Morant! One of my favorite films. It pai...

2009-05-26T14:22:03.220-06:00

Breaker Morant! One of my favorite films. It paints the very vivid picture that the tools of Empire are as disposable as the people on the receiving end. Empire simply doesn't care.

Many Americans simply don't "get it". They haven't a clue as to who they are, where they came from nor where they're headed. But, at least in the case of the Mancow, someone may wake up and realize its not an idle game.

I only wish that blowhards like Hannity or Limbaugh would go through the same treatment. If they only had the cajones to admit how cowardly they really are when they babble about how they needn't. I guess they're simply too important in their own eyes.

The one anonymous poster who says that Christianity has caved is absolutely right. Fight for truth? There is no debate when those in the pulpit and those in the pews bow down before Molech. Jesus is just another spiritual "Gumby" to be stretched and molded to the States wishes.

Having been "privileged" to undergo waterboarding ...

2009-05-26T08:49:54.420-06:00

Having been "privileged" to undergo waterboarding as part of POW/survival training while on active duty, my first reaction after watching the Mancow video was that this showoff underwent his "ordeal" under the most benign and casual of conditions. Among other things, his head was not immobilized, the surface on which he was placed did not slope downward at a steep angle to make breathing even more difficult than under normal conditions and, last but not least, he was not being beaten with solid objects while several gallons of water were suffocating him. All of these conditions are characteristic of "real" waterboarding, so if Mancow was ready to throw in the towel after fourteen seconds (as would any human being even under the relatively benign conditions depicted in the video), I doubt he would have lasted half that long under "field" conditions.

I noted also that even after admitting that waterboarding was torture, one thing that Mancow did not even address was the question of whether or not, now that he admitted to waterboarding's real nature, that it should continue to be practiced on "them ferners." Maybe he's afraid that his credibility --not to mention his ratings-- would suffer if he made a full-fledged recantation of his belligerent stance on the issue and that he would lose his neocon-right following. Either way, I still wish that he would have at least called for those who most avidly support waterboarding to put their money where their mouths are, like he did, and sip some of the toxic koolaid they so avidly perscribe for others.

most that have tried it under similar circumstance...

2009-05-26T06:50:20.509-06:00

most that have tried it under similar circumstances would probably agree that it is torture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzU3ybbRL78

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-sPK8vNbM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V89a_eYsmG4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7RXTWMiBkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkjZYl_CleM

'The bi-partisan Establishment considers the wars ...

2009-05-26T06:15:06.471-06:00

'The bi-partisan Establishment considers the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to be parts of a "Long War" that would last a generation or more.'

Indeed. Last week, Barack Dubya Obama told a graduating class at the U.S. Naval Academy that the U.S. will maintain its 'dominance,' meaning its worldwide empire. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Even a child could discern that the U.S. can't afford this empire. If proper reserves had been set aside for Social Security and Medicare -- using the same accrual accounting employed by large corporations, rather than misleading cash-basis accounting -- it would be seen that the U.S. has not run a budget surplus since the Coolidge administration in the 1920s.

And unless the troops are brought home for good from Germany, Japan, the U.K., Korea, Af-Pak, and dozens of other places, Usgov will never run another budget surplus in our lifetimes. Instead, chronic trillion-dollar deficits will grease the skids of a long national decline into an impoverished, second-class status.

Permanent war requires an 'elastic currency' to finance it. The Vietnam War broke the dollar's last link to gold in 1971. Now the Iraq/Afpak wars are destroying its vestigial reserve currency status. Along with national bankruptcy, 68 years of permanent war since 1941 have delivered secret government, black budgets, and an evisceration of the constitution.

That the ruinous policy of global empire is not even on the agenda for debate suggests that the U.S. is going to have to smack the wall, British-style, before it awakens from its folly. Too bad Christianity will be irrelevant to this discussion. The Christian zionists are gung-ho, while the old-line liberal protestants have gone silent. It seems that flag-waving nationalism can neuter the church just as effectively as communist oppression did. Why oppress, when one can suavely co-opt?

Mr. Grigg, Thank you for articulating the argument...

2009-05-26T04:58:19.899-06:00

Mr. Grigg,
Thank you for articulating the argument against these acts of barbarity.

I have become increasingly alarmed at the American people's acceptance of this type of behavior and its relevant propaganda.

We seem to be a nation that has lost her way. We can no longer claim the moniker of a "shining city on a hill" when we stoop to such depravity in the name of God or freedom.

The America I grew up in and loved stood for greater ideals. We stood for being above such moral corruption.

I very much fear the day that the ruling powers turn this type of injustice upon we the people. For who will come to the aid of the American people when her government openly turns against them?

I was struck by the question, "Why don't the polic...

2009-05-26T04:49:13.306-06:00

I was struck by the question, "Why don't the police waterboard?" Never thought of that and it's a good way to get people to examine a practice they might otherwise accept.
Excellent post.

Roman Empire, Hittite Empire, Babylonian Empire, M...

2009-05-26T04:20:16.976-06:00

Roman Empire, Hittite Empire, Babylonian Empire, Mayan Empire, Byzantine Empire, Ottoman Empire, French Empire, British Empire, Evil Empire, and finally American Empire - forgotten or soon-to-be-forgotten turds floating down the dank sewers of human history.

If reincarnation exists, for sure Dick Cheney will come back in his next life as a toilet brush. And George Bush will be a gonorrhea bacterium.

Yours pungently,
Lemuel Gulliver.

PS: If I recall the movie correctly, your readers should be aware that the last five seconds of that Australian film "Breaker Morant" were omitted from that clip. I guess it was too raw for the delicate American sensibilities of the viewers of YouTube - like most of what is done in our name all over this blood-soaked, godforsaken planet.

"causistry" => "casuistry"

2009-05-26T03:15:16.159-06:00

"causistry" => "casuistry"

While we wait for the wheels of justice to turn—as...

2009-05-26T00:59:04.962-06:00

While we wait for the wheels of justice to turn—as they always do—let's hope that we don't go out with the traditional stiff upper lip of the British empire, but with a fight worthy of true patriots.

Mr. Grigg - Thank you for your thoroughly research...

2009-05-26T00:45:37.550-06:00

Mr. Grigg - Thank you for your thoroughly researched and well-written article.

We Christians need to continue to renounce this evil, and denounce those who perpetuate it under the false flag of "christianity".

Who would Jesus waterboard?