Comments on Pro Libertate: Why The Innocent Flee From The Police

From 1944 to 1949 I was picked up by the police in...

2012-11-29T19:01:04.889-07:00

From 1944 to 1949 I was picked up by the police in Los Angeles, CA for the crime of walking after dark, seven times, held for 3 days, hit the line up for someone to see if I was the criminal they think did something. Each time after 3 days I was released in downtown Los Angeles at 2 AM, left to walk home, as there was no public transportation after 11:30 PM. Never convicted of any crime, other than arrested on "suspicion" The last time in 1949 about 5 minutes after I left the lunch counter of a local drug store where I had sat for over a half hour with another customer known by the waitress. I was walking home with a bag of two LP'S that I had bought across the street from the drug store, and it was the owner of the Record Store I was sitting with in the drug store, the cops stopped me. I had a small cosmetic case with me, containing a soldering iron and tools, I was bringing home to repair my record player, I was employed as a TV repair technician at that time. I was charged with burglary of a local home. I was taken under force to the police station, and roughed up, to teach me a lesson. The next day my employer called the rooming home where I lived to see why I did not come to work, investigation then by my dad, found I was in jail. My dad visited me, and I told him what happened, he brought the record store owner and the lunch clerk to the police station as witnesses that I indeed had been doing exactly what I told them. I was released, but with the comment that I got away with it this time, but they will be watching me. They also kept my tools, but gave me the records I bought. Shortly after that I finally bought a car, and was never bothered again, but for the last 65 years I've been ready to kill any cop that accosted me. I don't have a gun, so I haven't carried out that desire, but how many other citizens have killed cops because of such behavior? We may have declaired the military can't be used against us, but now our local police are the MILITARY. Ready to shoot us without cause. I believe we must arm ourselves to defend our Rights before we have NO Rights. Google my name Don Cordell and see my plans to Restore no Change America.

willb wrote: "It is the godless that place fa...

2009-11-11T20:09:19.773-07:00

willb wrote: "It is the godless that place faith in the law"

As an atheist, I can tell you that I have absolutely NO faith in the law - period. The law is an artifact of greedy self-interested men (and increasingly in the last 40 years women).

That 'the law' is an outgrowth of religion (I usually refer to it as the bastard step child of religion due to incestuous origins with religious institutions) is probably a discussion for another time.

Sic Semper Tyrannis

LG1018 and Anon 901, Thank you. Doc

2009-11-11T11:56:51.139-07:00

LG1018 and Anon 901,

Thank you.

Doc

Doc Ellis, This article, entitled: "The USA ...

2009-11-11T11:18:31.249-07:00

Doc Ellis,

This article, entitled: "The USA - A Failed State"

http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/usa--failed_state/

Paul Craig Roberts writes:
===================================
"An unmistakable sign of Third World despotism is a police force that sees the pubic as the enemy. Thanks to the federal government, our local police forces are now militarized and imbued with hostile attitudes toward the public. SWAT teams have proliferated, and even small towns now have police forces with the firepower of U.S. Special Forces.

"Summons are increasingly delivered by SWAT teams that tyrannize citizens with broken down doors, a $400 or $500 repair born by the tyrannized resident. Recently, a mayor and his family were the recipients of incompetence by the town’s local SWAT team, which mistakenly wrecked the mayor’s home, terrorized his family and killed the family’s two friendly Labrador dogs.

"If a town’s mayor can be treated in this way, what do you think is the fate of the poor white or black? Or the idealistic student who protests his government’s inhumanity?

"In any failed state, the greatest threat to the population comes from the government and the police. That is certainly the situation today in the U.S.A. Americans have no greater enemy than their own government. Washington is controlled by interest groups that enrich themselves at the expense of the American people."
==================================

As I noted, he is a former Assistant Treasury Secretary under Reagan. He reaches a much wider and more mainstream audience than our esteemed Mr. Grigg. If he is saying it, you may be sure many others are too. Sic Semper Tyrannis, as another writer likes to say. The writing is on the wall for the oligarchs and corporate bastards. The rumbling they hear is the approaching wheels of the tumbrils which will carry them to their deaths.

God will not be mocked.
Lemuel.

PS: Mr. Grigg wrote a piece a while back about the Mayor of Berwyn Heights, MD, whose home was invaded by County Police thugs who killed his family dogs (shot in the head) and only were restrained from (probably) murdering the Mayor and his family by the fortunate arrival of a city cop, who told the SWAT team that yes, the man was indeed the Mayor, as he claimed to be, (they did not believe him,) and made sure the SWAT team did not murder the mayor and his wife then claim they were "resisting arrest." The dead cannot dispute lies told about them. The police know this, and sometimes I believe they kill their victims deliberately, rather than just wound them, since in that case the victims can still tell what really happened. A dead witness is a silent witness. Especially a black one. Who believes the hysterical black mother of a slain black man? Talk about getting away with murder... the Prince Georges County police do that every day.

This one: http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/usa...

2009-11-11T10:01:39.456-07:00

This one: http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/usa--failed_state/

Lemuel Gulliver at 9.03 pm 'You would be surp...

2009-11-11T06:55:41.265-07:00

Lemuel Gulliver at 9.03 pm

'You would be surprised to find that this hatred of American police brutality is spreading, even among those whom you would never expect to be that way. I read Paul Craig Roberts (Reagan's assistant Treasury Secretary) at

http://www.takimag.com/blogs/Paul%20Craig%20Roberts

complaining about the abuse of citizens by thuggish police and SWAT teams.'

Which article? dated when?

Thank you

Doc

From the article: "What happened to Wright i...

2009-11-10T22:03:43.499-07:00

From the article:

"What happened to Wright is no isolated event," the Mercury News relates. "Hundreds of times a year interactions between San Jose police and residents where no serious crime has occurred escalate into violence."

Frank,
You are absolutely correct. Time was, in a less materialistic and more God-fearing age, that people would restrain their lusts and passions in fear of the eternal consequences. Now, we are told, the police gat a rush out of inciting terror in the public as they swagger around, (doesn't that sound exactly like the Gestapo: "Papieren, bitte!" of Nazi fame?) and feel no remorse or fear of reprisal as they wantonly murder innocent citizens, who are paying their salaries to protect them from such violence.

Time also was, when Law was based on Christian philosophy (at least in its aspirations if not in its realization,) that the Law recognized this human birth as a gift from God, and thus, the failure to defend one's life from those who would take it was a sin, an ingratitude against God for His gift.

Today, with our simpering multiculturalism and tender concerns for all systems of belief, (even Satanism,) Christian values are not just ignored, but actively suppressed.

(And do not tell me the Republicans are better than the Democrats. George Bush would welcome Christian representatives to the White House, and everyone would tell ribald jokes and laugh at them the moment they left. They were and are just using those people.)

I have one note of cheer for all of us. Dusty has hit the nail on the head. It has been the experience of every oppressing force, (the Germans in the Ukraine, Russians in Afghanistan, the USA in Iraq and now Afghanistan,) that for every resistance fighter or innocent bystander you kill, ten more take his place. You turn his entire family and many of his friends into resistance fighters.

You would be surprised to find that this hatred of American police brutality is spreading, even among those whom you would never expect to be that way. I read Paul Craig Roberts (Reagan's assistant Treasury Secretary) at

http://www.takimag.com/blogs/Paul%20Craig%20Roberts

complaining about the abuse of citizens by thuggish police and SWAT teams.

The word is spreading.

It is up to those who employ the police (not the citizenry, obviously) to reform their practices before the society explodes in vengeance and anarchy. Those who employ the police hope to keep the taxpayers in line through terror long enough to rob them blind, and then escape to a friendly country, the Cayman Islands, Switzerland, or Monaco, (which has no income tax.) However it has long been seen - history is full of examples, beginning with the French Revolution - that those who sow the wind will reap the whirlwind. The forces of righteous anger and anarchy eventually consume everyone and everything, even those who unleash them.

Be of good cheer, for God will not be mocked.

Lemuel Gulliver.

PS: To those regular readers who call me a hypocrite for quoting Scripture, I absolutely, 110% believe there is a God. I just do not believe any Church, Temple, or Mosque, and those who draw their salaries therefrom, have any closer relationship with God than I do myself. Most Churches, Mosques, and Temples, and their beliefs, are merely political organizations whose doctrines were built on the sand of politics or some founder's overblown ego, and change with the wind and rain. I have no quarrel with anything Jesus ever said, only with those people who have the brass to tell me what He meant. I can figure it out for myself, thank you. I listen to my heart, not the words of priests in pulpits.

folks should listen to this recent episode of '...

2009-11-10T11:00:11.609-07:00

folks should listen to this recent episode of 'this american life'... its on 'bait and switch' and a precis of one part is about the police abusing their power (noway you say...)

A couple in Texas find a seemingly abandoned car and think they've stumbled across a crime scene. And they're right...but not in the way they imagined. Michael May tells the story. Michael is the Books and Culture editor at The Texas Observer.

yes, the couple called the police - a couple of times, about the car (windows down with keys in the ignition)... and after being told it was nothing to worry about, they and a neighbor decided to video record them trying to get details about the car's owner from the car (after a couple days allowing it to sit there) when LO! and Behold! the cops swoop down and accuse them all of Grand Theft Auto...

in this case, the police were guilty of bait and switch but guess what? they were deemed to have not committed entrapment or any wrong-doing (by their colleagues) and were not charged with anything...

@Frank "people no longer believe in God'...

2009-11-10T09:45:53.230-07:00

@Frank

"people no longer believe in God's
ultimate judgment..."

So true. This is the very source
of authority usurped by the state
and why communism is officially
atheist. The law is to be worshipped.

Jesus rightly contradicts this
thought when he stated that "man
was not made for the sabbath, but
the sabbath for man."

It is the godless that place faith
in the law, but we Christians know
that the law cannot save, it can
only condemn.

Mr.Grigg's articles continue to
succinctly illustrate this fact.

willb

Ooh, Und I allmost furget! I'm cop too! So don...

2009-11-10T06:22:42.015-07:00

Ooh, Und I allmost furget!
I'm cop too! So donut mezz up! O'Ka?! I nforcer!

- a chimp

(Same chimp hoo currected Gullivor in lazt comet, nut different won, butt same won.)

Mistur Gullivor, "Hardly any different fro...

2009-11-10T06:08:22.989-07:00

Mistur Gullivor,
"Hardly any different from the documented behaviors of chimpanzees."

Yeah?! Iz dat so!? Jurk!Speek fur yurselv!

-a chimp

"As I wrote at the time, some of us dare call...

2009-11-09T22:41:44.365-07:00

"As I wrote at the time, some of us dare call that kind of approach "collaboration.""

Damn straight. You'll also find the NRA dabbles with that sort of mindset as well. I spoke with someone who has for the most part given up on them because he sees them as merely a fund raising entity that collaborates with the enemy and puts up token resistance at convenient intervals only to later cave. Always two steps back and one forward. That kind of "progress" will get you killed.

"As I wrote at the time, some of us dare call...

2009-11-09T22:41:43.518-07:00

The swaggering cops of today will become cowering ...

2009-11-09T18:41:22.375-07:00

The swaggering cops of today will become cowering wimps when the tipping point occurs ( a run on the banks and an implosion of our currency). From that point on they will live in fear as will the rest of us citizens while marauding gangs of thugs and cartels roam the countryside and suburbs of this once great but now hollowed out nation. To see where this has already occurred go and visit Peru or Argentina. These are countries 10 - 20 years ahead of us. Outside of the city centers and popular tourist destinations the police, in these countries are without any power.

Aquaintences have often told me that I have a prob...

2009-11-09T18:17:01.643-07:00

Aquaintences have often told me that I have a problem with authority. Those who know me well know that it is not authority I abhor, but the abuse of authority. Particularly police authority since I believe it represents the highest form of societal betrayal. We all claim to be enraged by the criminal and abusive conduct of law enforcement but as Mr. Gulliver pointed out, as long as they get away with it, there is no incentive for them to change. The fact that so many police officers seem to get off on the fear they instill in the citizens they claim to serve is very telling of the maturity, intellect, and quality of these individuals. It also illustrates that the only solution to this problem is a turning of the tables. There are times when the dog must be forcibly reminded who his master is. This will only happen when it is clearly understood that when a police officer abuses their authority by abusing a member of their community, other members of the community will take it upon themselves to rectify the situation. I have sworn an oath that should a police officer brutalize a member of my family in the manner that is becoming all too standard, I will return that violence many fold on any and all who were involved. If all people were to swear this same oath and act on it, the willingness of law enforcement to abuse their authority would decrease to nearly nothing.

As for the poster who believes it is better to live as a dog than die as a lion, I will die a free man long before I will live as a slave. I feel nothing but disgust and pity for a willing slave.

jk

I am into my sixth decade of life. I have enough y...

2009-11-09T16:08:47.266-07:00

I am into my sixth decade of life. I have enough years behind me to have witnessed the before and after; what local cops use to be and what they have become and are becoming every day with accelerated pace. When I was growing up, I was never afraid of cops; never felt intimidated. I have never been arrested; never in trouble with "the law." So what I feel now, even as a senior citizen, is not based on anything in my past. I hate to say it but cops now days for the most part act like swaggering SA thugs. I know some law enforcement personnel personally and not a few of them brag to me about the fear factor they induce in even the law abiding citizenry. They actually get a rush off of being feared. It use to not be that way; at least not in my experience. More than once the abysmal thought has crossed my mind as I've watched and listened and learned: "jackbooted thugs."

The level of frustration is beginning to manifest ...

2009-11-08T21:55:31.162-07:00

The level of frustration is beginning to manifest itself even here in back-water ID. Though as usual, by those least likely to carry out the much needed deed in a meaningful manner.

Last week a couple of our boys in black (ISP costumes are more black than blue), motorcycle cops no doubt running a speed trap, run down by an enraged motorist in a pickup as they sat in the freeway median. Unfortunately, the doughnut eater's survived.

The question that will never be asked is what did the gov't do to this man to drive him to such an act. I'm quite sure we will never be allowed to know.

It always starts small, on the fringe, where frayed nerves are most exposed . . .

For the tax parasites it is a matter of your money, your obedience or your life. At some point the indentured begin to rebel.

Sic Semper Tyrannis

My question is where the hell are the relatives an...

2009-11-08T19:42:08.450-07:00

My question is where the hell are the relatives and loved ones of these people that were attacked.I will tell you if anyone did that to one of my loved ones they would be 6 feet underground right now no matter what uniform or badge they had.People this is the exact way that the terror started in Russia and Germany unconstitutional laws were passed by corrupt lawmakers and enforced without question by corrupt law enforcement officers it has started now and it is time to defend yourself and your loved ones.

Doc, Same passage, as it turns out: "For to...

2009-11-07T22:25:24.513-07:00

Doc,

Same passage, as it turns out:

"For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion." ~ Ecclesiastes 9:4

Living in Vermont there are very few towns that ...

2009-11-07T18:47:43.336-07:00

Living in Vermont there are very few towns that have a full time police force. State Police and Sherriff coverages exist but full time police forces rarely exist. Its refreshing. NH well that is a different story. I recently lived in a town of less than 1000 residents in NH and they had a full time police force of 6 officers! What a joke and a colassal waste of taxpayer's money.

It is not impossible to escape, or even close, whe...

2009-11-07T16:54:43.707-07:00

It is not impossible to escape, or even close, when one wishes to escape the law.

I know many throughout my lifetime who have done so, it's often an easy thing to do as many cops are just plain stupid. Once they've got your license plate number or they know who you are there may be little hope, but as long as you're just a nobody, some body, or just anybody, freedom beckons many.

Of course that is one of the reasons so many cities are putting cameras everywhere, so people can be tracked like numbered livestock, but even then, people disappear, and cops are often stupid which makes them easy to escape from.

The so-called perfect law abider will never entertain such thoughts, with no attempt to do anything other than submit immediately. Depending on their class level or caste level, they are rarely beaten and such.

Just my observations.

Frank @ 6.48am, 'The Scriptures tell us that ...

2009-11-07T11:19:31.799-07:00

Frank @ 6.48am,

'The Scriptures tell us that "Where there is life, there is hope," and "A live dog is better than a dead lion."'

Where?

Doc Ellis 124

There is one angle here that is alarming to say th...

2009-11-07T09:42:53.578-07:00

There is one angle here that is alarming to say the least. With the economy the way it is, cops today can not do half as good in the private sector as they do being cops. So the "good ones" will not risk losing their jobs to go against cops who are engaged in criminal acts against lawful citizens. The people behind the curtain are very well aware of this and use it to their advantage. This out of control police abuse of American citizens is by design. The intent of this is to have iron fist control of the citizenry and having them live in fear of the government. This gives the players behind the curtains the force needed to enslave the American people.
btw/ The health care bill clearly states that if people refuse to go along with it will be subject $250,000 in fines and 5 years in prison. To enforce this the behind the curtain controllers will use a bad economy to put fear into the goons who will enforce the attacks on Americas freedom and rights with loss of their jobs. Yea, we have big problems.

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've ...

2009-11-07T07:48:08.122-07:00

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've written here.

But your closing remarks:

Each encounter between the police and innocent civilians is a potentially deadly experience for the latter. Thus the real question is not "Why do innocent people flee from the police?" but rather, "What rational person would submit to the police if he had any reasonable hope of eluding or resisting them?"

... beg the question: What "reasonable hope of eluding or resisting them"? I submit that in this day and age, it is nearly impossible to do.

This is real life, not the fantasy world posited in films like "V for Vendetta." As it currently stands, the mundane's best hope — while admittedly not an especially strong one — is surviving the unjust police encounter to the best of his ability (which demonstrably will not be accomplished by resisting, even with deadly force) in hopes of fighting another day by working within the system in hopes of eventually seeing justice done.* (The Scriptures tell us that "Where there is life, there is hope," and "A live dog is better than a dead lion.")

Granted, justice may not be done in this or that particular case. But as more and more of these cases become public knowledge, it is possible that a tipping point will be reached and we will begin the return to a society where cops are genuine "peace officers" rather than ham-handed "law enforcement officers."

Consider for a moment what injustices were tolerated — by mundanes and nobles alike — through the 12th century. Until a crack in the elitist, rex lex wall appeared in 1215 — namely, Magna Carta.
_________________________

*Incidentally, it seems to me one reason some cops, prosecutors, judges etc. manipulate evidence and other aspects of "the system" is because, as a whole, people no longer believe in God's ultimate judgment at the end of history. We don't believe in the afterlife, so we dismiss biblical laws of evidence and trial, and tolerate instead "the system" doing "whatever is necessary" to see the bad guy (i.e., the "likely perpetrator") punished in this life. (See my piece "Unbelief and the Deification of the Civil Magistrate:
Insomnia".) We would rather punish someone — and especially a demonstrably bad man — for a crime he may not have committed, rather than see that crime go unpunished in this life, because we believe this life is all there is, our only chance at seeing justice.

Well, consider that the same brand of unbelief can infect the thinking of us righteous mundanes. It goes like this: "Even though I will likely die in the process, I would rather resist an unrighteous arrest — with deadly force, if necessary — than submit, because if I submit, no justice in this matter will ever be done."

Where there is life, there is hope.

A live dog is better than a dead lion.

Hoo-boy -- Me and "Support Your Local Police&...

2009-11-07T07:45:12.505-07:00

Hoo-boy -- Me and "Support Your Local Police"; don't get me started....

There are few human beings of whom I have record less inclined toward racism than Robert Welch. His concern in starting SYLP was to prevent what we have now: A militarized, fully nationalized law enforcement monolith.

Were he alive today, Robert Welch would most likely recognize that SYLP represents a counter-productive approach. That's not true of the mendacious weaklings and hypocrites running the JBS today, however.

In the weeks leading up to my firing by the JBS I was trying desperately to get those people to recognize and admit that there really aren't any local police to support any more, given the ubiquity of federal regulation and subsidy through the Pentagon and Homeland Security Department. But they were dogmatically committed to SYLP, irrespective of the changing landscape.

I'm not sure that racism plays a role in that posture. I am sure that simple fear is a significant motivation. On numerous occasions JBS management made it clear that they wanted to curry favor with the police as a way of counteracting the influence of the SPLC, ADL, and other left-wing "watchdog" groups.

This helps explain why, earlier this year, JBS management actually issued a statement urging members to make nice with the Homeland Security "fusion centers" -- the cheka-style joint counter-terrorism task forces -- following the release of the notorious report on "domestic extremism."

As I wrote at the time, some of us dare call that kind of approach "collaboration."