Comments on Pro Libertate: Hotlined

Recently CPS (child protective services) was calle...

2013-01-08T08:37:54.400-07:00

Recently CPS (child protective services) was called out to our house because my almost 5 yr old was holding her baby sister at a restaurant.

When the CPS agent got to our house I asked for warrant. Then she said she didn't need one because she wasn't the police. I insisted since she worked for the government. At which point she threatened to send armed men to my house and enter regardless and also that she could take our kids away. At which point I relented out of fear and let her in.

I wish I had a camera, maybe she would have backed off. I wish I would have been a member of HSLDA, then maybe I could have had support to say back off.

Now my wife lives in fear when she is in public that someone will report her for some benign action. I live in fear of having someone intrude into my home and being separated from my center of my life, my children and wife.

The case will probably be closed. But now we have a record with the government and now we live in "fear." But, if this happens again, we will be more prepared and be willing to stand for our rights and privacy.

I stand in highest esteem for you freedom fighters who not only teach us what freedom is and the abuses against it but also practice it. It is this that keeps us free, the willingness to push back against those who would have us be slaves.

A gripping tale - with a happy ending. Has it com...

2011-10-21T05:15:43.468-06:00

A gripping tale - with a happy ending.

Has it come to that? Every law-abiding family needing an escape plan...Defcon manuals along with rules of engagement, prepared resources...
Sounds like war, doesn't it?

Sadly - so many are caught completely unprepared...thinking that the state is there to serve and protect their best interests.
Whether we should know better -far too many do not.

I had a strange, eerie feeling as I read your tale - that I was reading the beginning of yet another Holocaust survival adventure.

Is this how it starts?

To all you naive people who think that govt. agenc...

2010-02-08T05:11:21.300-07:00

To all you naive people who think that govt. agencies are just there to help and that may make just a few isolated mistakes, STOP, READ and LEARN.

I learned the hard way how the Massachusetts DCF works.

My sister is a single mom and my husband and I helped raise her developmentally delayed daughter. They lived in our home. She became like a daughter to us.

When she mentioned in school that her uncle dresses her and gets her ready for bed, the witch hunt began.

We are accused of sexual abuse and neglect. No search for truth. DCF did not ask us any questions. Even when I called them, they would not discuss it with me. They just sent it to the DA to prosecute.

We were separated from our niece, who is like a daughter to us. DCF "suggested" to my sister that we not see her. If she does not "comply" they may come after her too!

My husband and I have been emotionally distraught for a year now. And just imagine how abandoned my niece feels! Her Mom can't tell her the truth about why we can't see her because it is far worse than the lie that we are "too busy".

This misunderstanding could easily have been resolved in a matter of minutes. Instead DCF made it, quite literally, into a federal case.

No charges were brought, but now we must prove we are innocent to DCF or have our names on their perp list for 75 years. Yes, once accused by DCF your name is in their data base for 75 years, unless you can convince them that they made a mistake. How do you prove you did not do something? We will try to do so next month. Please pray or us.

The problem with DCF is that they ARE the investigator, judge, jury and executioner. The USA has 3 branches of government in order to keep any one of them from having too much power (supposedly). Why does DCF not have the same controls?

Sadly, DCF throws the entire family out with the bathwater.

In my neighborhood which is rather innocuous and m...

2009-10-16T00:45:45.909-06:00

In my neighborhood which is rather innocuous and middle class. We are oversupplied with widowers of both genders. There was an old gentlemen whose drive had cracks in it, under some strange set of events he was cited for it. In the end he was forced out of his house, lost everything in legal fees and was appointed a GAL who self appointed herself on his behalf. He had no one to back him up or look after his interests, the GAL had him committed along with social services. He went from being a man of wealth to a man of utter poverty drugged up in a state transit home. I found out later that this GAL, along with a lot of legal officials operated with Realtors, attorneys and the courts to scam the weak and the vulnerable. That means single moms, young children and the old and infirm. Heck there was even a guy who was thrown out of his house and moved into one he bought next door to his now divorcing ex spouse. But he still was not allowed to see his children. She moved in the boyfriend, his son(13y) ran away his ex spouse was pregnant from the new boyfriend and worse the boyfriend also fathered a child with this guy's daughter (15y). This same GAL along with social workers sealed the case against the mother. The father went quite insane and was committed to a mental institution. The girl gave her baby up to CPS as did the mother, and then they did it again. I had to move away from this silent gommorrah that is developing in our nation, I have had enough. And I cannot find anywhere that is not affected.

So here is my scary situation that I need TONS of ...

2009-09-13T13:46:17.022-06:00

So here is my scary situation that I need TONS of advice on. My sister in law is a bipolar who self medicates with street drugs, her sister and mother the same. When my sister in law's 2 year old daughter overdosed, I told her that she was no longer allowed to see my children, as her problems were harmful to my children's wellbeing. She became angry and vindictive. Shortly afterward, a CPS worker showed up at my doorstep carrying a long list of false accusations (containing any way you could POSSIBLY imagine a child being abused or neglected) that had been compiled by the sisters and their mother (all angry I would not let them see my children). So, having no knowledge about the CPS system (my kids are very well taken care of, I saw no need for knowledge of it), I kindly let the worker in to talk to myself and my children, knowing I have nothing to hide. She talked to us, I told her I was moving due to the close proximity and non stop harrassment of my husband's family. There were lots of boxes already packed. She did not want to here anything of the real situation, just wanted to ask a lot of questions about things I and my husband "did" to our kids. She went on her way, said it all sounded "unfounded" and that she would send a letterin a few days about the findings, as she had to still investigate with doctors, friends, and schools, etc. We did not hear back from her and moved 8 days later. We are living in another county. It has been 3 weeks now since that first visit. I still have not heard from her again. I live in constant fear now due to what I have learned about the CPS system and their abuse of the people. What should I do? How do I find out without calling this wicked CPS woman what the "findings" are? What should I be careful of? Where can I go for answers and knowledge to arm myself should this attack continue?? Do you know of any websites?

AvJoe ~ Thank you for the news links about the Gy...

2009-08-27T15:36:41.312-06:00

AvJoe ~

Thank you for the news links about the Gypsy Jokers. They do have a way of turning the law back on the 'authorities' breaking it.

"The Gypsy Joker Motorcycle Club has a history of looking out for their legal rights and they have won two cases in Oregon in recent years that ultimately cost the taxpayers in Keizer and Gresham a lot of money."

I'd pass on that "token draw" on a c...

2009-08-26T20:03:12.626-06:00

I'd pass on that "token draw" on a cigarette. I hear that the addiction can set in with the second. Skip the first and there's never a second.

"Once again, no parallel to an abused child. ...

2009-08-17T22:58:56.943-06:00

"Once again, no parallel to an abused child. This is about childrens rights, not practicing social Darwinism via parents exterminating their own children because of incompetency or mental health issues. I think you have confused this issue with exterminating an entire culture.

It's pure knee-jerk exaggerations like this that completely distort the nature of the service."

Wild, I guess you're not getting the point. From what source does any state agency derive the right to enter my home for an inspection and evaluation of my worthiness to keep my own children? And, as Dixiedog has pointed out, who is in charge of determining what constitutes abuse? Where is the line drawn, and who gets to draw the line? Perhaps my house is too small for six children. How big is big enough? Does each child require a private bedroom? Is two per room acceptable? Maybe three? If not three, why not? Who says? Who gets to decide what a child's rights are? Why? By whose standards? Why are your standards more acceptable than mine? Why are mine more acceptable than yours?

I don't think I'm "completely distorting the nature of the service" here, mostly because I don't think it can be called a service. Service generally denotes a voluntary request for such services, so it doesn't qualify there. Service also usually denotes some type of positive or helpful aspect. Again, not quite. Your wife may work for such an agency, and she may think she provides a service, but try to think of it a different way. How would you feel if I provided you the service of entering your home uninvited to inspect the quality of the structure? If the construction did not meet my demanding standards, you would be required to move out, at your own expense, until it was brought up to spec. It's for your own good you know. We can't have you living in a home that isn't up to par, right? Think of the children! Living with such plain trim and mouldings, it's just shameful.

Are you getting it yet? You live your life and I'll live mine, and don't provide me with any "services" I didn't request. Easy enough.

So, you let them enter without a warrant? Why did...

2009-08-17T20:35:07.571-06:00

So, you let them enter without
a warrant?
Why did you bother "tidying" the
house?
Yes, yes of course.

Very sad story.
Hope your children recover soon.

Will, This is in place of an email being I do not ...

2009-08-17T19:35:43.095-06:00

Will, This is in place of an email being I do not have one for you. Below are two different stories one from out local paper and one from Salem. I have always said the Statesmen is one of the best run state owned newspapers in the nation. As you know its not a crime to be a biker and when people are singled out for police state action I get real nervous. Maybe I should because on my mom's side of the family we lost a lot of family members due to a police state not all that long ago. So I grew up never being able to know any of these wonderful poeple.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/august132009/joker_idaho_8-13_09.php

http://www.idahostatesman.com/westada/story/865727.html?pageNum=10&mi_pluck_action=page_nav#Comments_Container

actually, usually and most of us parents who adop...

2009-08-17T18:32:11.312-06:00

actually, usually and most of us parents who adopted can figure out who reported us by what is said by the SW when they come out... I think he hinted to that by the high grass remark...

so it does not take long too figure out

sometimes it has been school, sometimes a kind church person, etc.. all out to "help"

system is way messed up... you can search adoptive parents false abuse allegations and see all the really bad real life stories out there... :(

it is also something the public schools around here do for what seems like fun to them... anytime a parent advocates for their child, well just about any time...

you can go to a site called pound pup and see all the good social services does for thousands of so called abused children.... statistically children are in more danger in state care than being left in just about any kind of home (severe cases not included)
the system often takes them away from all the have, places them on drugs, and treats them with abuse and neglect... all on gov. money... how nice

One of my best friends was harassed by CPS and eve...

2009-08-17T17:16:47.043-06:00

One of my best friends was harassed by CPS and even APS (Adult Protective Services) in Dallas County, TX.

Yes, there's an APS which harasses people based on adults' living conditions, and threatens to take away adults and put them in nursing homes or psychiatric institutions, even if they are competent, and even if they make no complaints themselves.

He had 6 cats in his house, along with his wife, two sons, and wife's aunt (who is disabled). It was a somewhat dirty house, but hardly inhumane.

He was threatened that his kids would be taken away if he did not get rid of the cats.

So I cat-sitted them for two weeks, keeping them in my garage. CPS never threatened him after that, so I returned the cats after two weeks.

My friend died early this year, and as soon as he was pronounced dead, CPS put his wife and kids in a halfway house, and then ransacked their house. They stole his toolbox and a bowling ball I had given him.

A bus driver friend who happened to be there at the right time, saved everything she could, by storing anything valuable in his SUV. After CPS ransacked and emptied the house, she and her husband generously remodeled the house, by replacing the floor and repainting the walls.

My friend's widow is not emotionally strong enough to fight CPS, and is easily taken advantage of. So the bus driver comes by every week as a self-appointed "caretaker" to make sure the house meets CPS standards, and reminding her when something needs cleaning or organizing.

Unfortunately, all of the cats were seized after my friend died. My cat, who I adopted from him over 4 years ago, is the sole cat family survivor from the state.

I personally don't have a dog in this hunt, bu...

2009-08-17T14:46:42.874-06:00

I personally don't have a dog in this hunt, but I still think it's worth noting nonetheless.

The chorus that wild keeps singing is "...protect an abused child..."

The stickler that's apparently eluding you here, wild, is the WHO of WHAT that define "abuse"? And, perhaps most critical, is WHAT precisely does the WHO define as "abuse"? Vague and foggy notions don't cut it. And isn't allowing anonymous snitches to make allegations of wrongdoing against you to the state and remain anonymous a violation of the sixth amendment? Or is it only when the alleged perpetrator makes it into the courthouse? In which case it still wouldn't matter because the anonymouse can still retain their anonymity. Yes, I know we've long ignored the constitution, but again it's worth noting.

Anyhow, take a gander at this, wild. Even though Will doesn't work for the JBS/TNA anymore, it's still relevant.

Wild: "I see no parallel here to a situation ...

2009-08-17T13:13:48.032-06:00

Wild: "I see no parallel here to a situation involving people attempting to protect an abused child who cannot defend itself against incompetent parents."

I think you're being incredibly naive if you think that CPS officials spend their time "attempting to protect an abused child." Like all government officials, they exist mainly to justify their own existence and to increase their budgets. No, that's not the STATED PURPOSE of their existence, but when it comes to government employees, reality and fantasy bear no resemblance to each other.

It is wise to respond courteously to thugs like the CPS woman Mr. Grigg encountered, but it is the height of foolishness to pretend that they are anything other than predators and parasites. If you think they don't wreck healthy families every day of the year, as they put parents through emotional and financial hell, you are living in a dream world.

I had a similar situation with CPS. I told my midw...

2009-08-17T12:40:30.647-06:00

I had a similar situation with CPS. I told my midwife that my estranged husband was harassing me. She asked me to speak to their resident therapist because of the stress. When I told the therapist that my husband had pushed his way into my front door to see our daughter and argued with me about it, she reported me to CPS for emotional abuse to our daughter since apparently if parents argue or yell at each other in front of children it constitutes emotional abuse. CPS later showed up at my gate. I sent them away but they made an appointment for a later date. I had my mom there and secretly tape recorded the interview just in case. They also harassed my husband by phone at his job several times. He was furious and wanted to know who reported us and why. It put me in an awkward situation because I didn't want to reveal I had talked about him with a therapist. We were cleared by CPS, but as understand it the black mark of the investigation never comes off your file with them. CPS is the rouge arm of the law and is used for compliance and submition to government control.

It was the scariest thing because they can yank children on flimsy grounds and without a hearing. Your child goes to foster care or an institution. I have known several people who were in foster care and all of them were raped and abused by their foster families. Foster care is not safe and invites abuse. Then, the kids are often adopted out. CPS is looking for new blood, especially cute children because they get money for foster care placements and even more money for adoptions. This crime needs to be exposed and stopped.

I had a similar situation with CPS. I told my midw...

2009-08-17T12:39:17.870-06:00

"Most bloody revolutions have been fomented b...

2009-08-17T11:13:18.862-06:00

"Most bloody revolutions have been fomented by middle-class intellectual students from solid bourgeois homes. Think Che Guevara, for instance." - Anonymouse

I see no parallel here to a situation involving people attempting to protect an abused child who cannot defend itself against incompetent parents.

"The real issue is what right the state has to inspect your family, whether you have something to hide or not. Just apply the above statement to Jews in 1930s Germany and see if it still makes sense to you." - isaac

Once again, no parallel to an abused child. This is about childrens rights, not practicing social Darwinism via parents exterminating their own children because of incompetency or mental health issues. I think you have confused this issue with exterminating an entire culture.

It's pure knee-jerk exaggerations like this that completely distort the nature of the service.

Once again to reiterate for those of you who love to knee-jerk and bash. CPS really doesn't have any interest in some weeds in the back yard and you sure as hell don't have to let them into your home. The people that really have been abusing their children are normally the ones stupid enough to let them in, so that problem takes care of itself.

Mr. Grigg really needs to find out who called in the report. Therein lies the main problem, not those that are trying to protect defenseless children.

I read this on pound pup... I guess you adopted ki...

2009-08-17T10:33:40.135-06:00

I read this on pound pup... I guess you adopted kids... you will not see the last of this, people seem to have a special place in their heart to report adoptive families....

we get this every 3 years or so, so glad you and your kids are safe for now

"No need to get worked up about what happened...

2009-08-17T08:42:49.266-06:00

"No need to get worked up about what happened unless there was something to hide, really. If they don't investigate they will be the first ones hung out to dry on the front page of the newspaper when something does go wrong. CPS bashing is quite popular these days."

The real issue is what right the state has to inspect your family, whether you have something to hide or not. Just apply the above statement to Jews in 1930s Germany and see if it still makes sense to you. If it does, I guess others will see just what is wrong with our world today.

'Remember, most of the CPS workers are younger...

2009-08-17T04:46:44.723-06:00

'Remember, most of the CPS workers are younger women out to "save the world" and the last thing they want to do is take your kids.'-- wild

Most bloody revolutions have been fomented by middle-class intellectual students from solid bourgeois homes. Think Che Guevara, for instance.

They meant to 'save the world' too. The last thing they wanted was to leave piles of dead bodies behind them. Sadly, it just worked out that way.

The most important think about this post is that y...

2009-08-17T03:22:00.570-06:00

The most important think about this post is that you were prepared ahead of time for CPS. Most people who have had to deal with CPS haven't been. I am the Albany CPS and Family Court examiner and have written an article that basically says that the way you dealt with CPS is a model for anyone who has to deal with them. You can read it at http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-14537-Albany-CPS-and-Family-Court-Examiner~y2009m8d17-CPS-visits-well-known-editor-author-and-Constitutionalist-William-N-Grigg-after-hotline-call (I need permission to use your photo in the article. Can you email me at danieltweaver AT gmail.com and give me permission? Thank you!)

I don't know what state you are in, but around...

2009-08-16T18:55:43.161-06:00

I don't know what state you are in, but around here they go after people that call in false reports. My wife works for CPS and is already buried up to her neck in sex abuse cases involving scenarios that are sick beyond the imagination of 99.5% of those reading this sentence. The last thing they have time for is chasing false reports.

Remember, most of the CPS workers are younger women out to "save the world" and the last thing they want to do is take your kids. The primary function is to reunite families after helping the parents understand through services why it isn't OK to... leave their 2 yr old in a room while they spend the entire week at the bar, or the fact that their 6 week old ended up in a body cast with no good reason.

No need to get worked up about what happened unless there was something to hide, really. If they don't investigate they will be the first ones hung out to dry on the front page of the newspaper when something does go wrong. CPS bashing is quite popular these days.

In a word, WTF? OK, that's three but why were ...

2009-08-16T16:23:15.739-06:00

In a word, WTF? OK, that's three but why were these people called to your home over a few overgrown weeds? Are we to believe that your state has a lawn police?

This sounds like the kind of shit we hear all the time about DSS here in MA. The problem is these people get their budget cut by Beacon Hill (our state congress) year after year and they're increasingly under pressure to justify their existence. It's a known fact that every DSS caseworker carries on average about 69 cases in their portfolio because they keep having to lay off other caseworkers. That puts pressure on them to find results, any results, and the lesser time they spend on each of those 69 cases also theoretically endangers children who really are endangered.

Of course, when you have a bureaucracy that's accountable to few if any oversight agencies or similar apparatus, there's plenty of potential for abuse of authority. Families have been torn apart to no discernible good effect and often without reason. I was investigated once back in 2003 and ten years before that I was named as a possible perp in another DSS investigation even though I was not the father. I was made to take an IQ test and some other tests that the DSS-employed shrink said were "inconclusive" and insisted on my taking a 2nd battery of exams.

I insisted on telling DSS to go fuck themselves and they never pursued me. Their case workers are just that- case workers, hacks. Only a very small percentage of them are actually social workers and you'd be amazed to find out how very very few even have children of their own.

What scares me about your case is that the only reason she didn't launch a full investigation was because you kissed her ass and showed the respect to which she was not legally entitled. Contempt of cop is not a crime and the same certainly applies to contempt for case worker. I admit, with my hot temper, I would've been extremely confrontational, as would many other parents when their homes are about to be invaded. Did she not even tell you during the first visit what started all this or did you find out about the weeds only when that first cop showed up?

I would think in the interests of fairness they would've made an open disclosure of the controversial crab grass that started the whole flaming shit wagon rolling downhill.

From Anonymous 2:47 PM, near the end of the commen...

2009-08-16T05:57:21.534-06:00

From Anonymous 2:47 PM, near the end of the comments:

"They rearranged my life with a single visit. I'm no longer willing to comply."

Bingo -- COMPLIANCE is the statists' code word; the obsession of the U.S. fedgov. One encounters it everywhere now. It's all my wife heard during a year spent teaching school. Much of her non-class time was spent on documenting "compliance."

Every spring, fedgov-funded roadblocks are set up to monitor "compliance" with fedgov-dictated seatbelt laws.

Soon, thanks to an obscure provision of the "stimulus" act, your doctor will have to demonstrate "compliance" with posting your private health records in a government database. Already, all of your prescriptions go into a database called Nasper.

Ordering contact lenses last week, I had to fax my scrip to the "Compliance Department." You see, there's a fedgov guild law which says that your lens prescription has to be recent, or it's no good ... and YOU have to pay for another optician visit. Fortunately, the penalties for the victimless crime of forging an eyeglass prescription are not as harsh as those for forging a CDS ("Controlled Dangerous Substance") prescription.

Note that, in Orwellian fashion, statists have ensured that you can't even say "CDS" without invoking "danger." The term assumes that there are no non-dangerous controlled substances.

"Compliance' is that sort of word, too. It assumes and teaches that the highest civic virtue consists of cringing servility to our overlords.

This being the case, I'd recommend that the parchment copy of the 1776 Declaration of Independence be removed from its glass case and publicly burnt. It is, after all, a foul farrago of noncompliant ranting, whose disrespectful authors deserved a tart taste of fedgov "justice."

If all you people realy knew who is running this c...

2009-08-15T22:16:42.301-06:00

If all you people realy knew who is running this country, and how insane they are, you would find it hard to believe. It is a hundred times worse than you thought. This is the new Soviet Union, and it will only get worse.