Comments on Pro Libertate: Pinning Us Down: The "Public Health" Rationale for Tyranny

With various health care reform bills floating aro...

2009-10-07T14:21:08.756-06:00

With various health care reform bills floating around both the House and the Senate, President Barack Obama is pulling out all the stops to get the votes that the bill needs, which is good news for the public option. President Obama continues to rally behind health care reform. I am really concerned that the fiasco of this reform may make Obama a one-term president.

Samuel Adams "If ye love wealth better than liber...

2009-05-18T19:58:00.000-06:00

Samuel Adams

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
(speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776)

Will, and readers, here is the latest on Pastor An...

2009-05-12T22:41:00.000-06:00

Will, and readers, here is the latest on Pastor Anderson's travails. http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Feature-Article.htm?Info=0056971

J.E. Andreasen
Tempe, AZ

Here's another coming sign of tyranny, the control...

2009-05-09T23:33:00.000-06:00

Here's another coming sign of tyranny, the control of food...

PS again: I don't believe God even "hates" Satan. ...

2009-05-07T04:48:00.000-06:00

PS again: I don't believe God even "hates" Satan. He CREATED Satan. If an all-powerful God "hated" Satan, God could destroy Satan in a flash. But God does not. I believe God LOVES Satan. And that gives me hope, for if God can love His ignorant and flawed child, Satan, then there is hope for me too.

PS: Shay's Rebel, I re-read again what you wrote: ...

2009-05-07T04:43:00.000-06:00

PS: Shay's Rebel, I re-read again what you wrote:

"God hates sin, He hates our sin. Why do you say that He loves it?"

God is Love. His Love is all-powerful and infinite. I suggest to you that a God who is all love is incapable of hating anything. Especially since this Creation is all His. He loves it all - all of it. Even Saddam Hussein. Even Adolf Hitler. Even George Bush.

It is only we limited and ignorant creatures that are capable of hating. And of course, Satan - a limited and ignorant creature like us, who in infinite pride, refuses to repent and is therefore beyond hope of salvation.

Whoever wrote those words: "God hates xxxxxxx" was a blasphemer who was far, far from God, out of touch with God's love, and was presuming to assert his own limited understanding to negate God's infinite love. He was re-creating the infinite God in the image of his own flawed and limited soul.

Lemuel Gulliver.

Shay's Rebel, Thanks for your thoughtful question...

2009-05-07T04:30:00.000-06:00

Shay's Rebel,

Thanks for your thoughtful question.

Didn't Jesus say: "I come to call the sinners, not the righteous, to repentance?"

God loves us. How can He let us know that? By forgiving us for our sins. If we had no sin, how could He bring home to us the immense depth of His love for us? If we were perfect, and He said to us, "I love you," we would say, "But of course - why not? Aren't we perfect and deserving of Your love?"

This is where I take exception to Muslim theology. In Islam, as far as I have read, all you have to do is keep to certain moral codes (five of them) and you are guaranteed - guaranteed!! - salvation. As if the vast and unfathomable immensity of God's love could ever be earned, or is for sale. How can we miserable worms be so arrogant as to make bargains with the Creator of a billion billion galaxies?

The fact that we can never deserve God's love makes it all the more wonderful. Without our sin, the miracle of Jesus' death and our redemption would be impossible. Sin, repentance and redemption is God's plan for us. God loves our repentance, and that is only possible because we have sinned. So he loves our sins, not because they are good of themselves, but because they open the path to our redemption.

Maybe this will make it clearer: You have cancer. Chemotherapy will cure you. It's a horrible treatment. Are you thankful for chemotherapy? Of course. Without it you will die. You love the chemotherapy, even though it gives you pain and nausea, because of what it makes possible for you - life.

Does that explain it?

Lemuel Gulliver.

Lemuel: "It sounds crazy, but a compassionate God ...

2009-05-05T13:23:00.000-06:00

Lemuel: "It sounds crazy, but a compassionate God loves our sins." It sounds more like a false gospel.

Psalms 5:4 -- For you are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness, Nor shall evil dwell with You. . .

Proverbs 6:16 -- These six things the Lord hates, Yea, seven are an abomination to Him. . .

God hates sin, He hates our sin. Why do you say that He loves it?

This nation has essentially been a Constitution-fr...

2009-05-05T12:23:00.000-06:00

This nation has essentially been a Constitution-free zone for some time. The border games are practice sessions.

Dixie, Five blind men and one man with sight came...

2009-05-05T06:39:00.000-06:00

Dixie,

Five blind men and one man with sight came upon an elephant. One blind man felt the leg, and said, "This animal is like a tree." One felt the ear and said, "This animal is like a blanket." One felt the side and said, "This animal is like a house." One felt the trunk and said, "This animal is like a snake." The fifth felt the tusk and said, "This animal is like a spear."

The Sighted Man said, "You are all of you correct, and you are all wrong at the same time. This animal is what it is. It is called an elephant."

Yesterday I was touching the leg. Today I am touching the ear. You are touching the tusk.

Advice for blind men: Feel around a bit here and there and see if you can get ahold of another part of the animal. Even if you cannot see it, eventually you may get a clearer idea of the whole.

Shall we go to war over whether we should open our boiled eggs on the fat end or the thin end?

Yours sincerely,
Lemuel Gulliver.

Lemuel, IMHO you seem to sway with the weeds which...

2009-05-04T23:04:00.000-06:00

Lemuel, IMHO you seem to sway with the weeds whichever way the wind blowest at the moment. You seem to, ever so cleverly I might add, feign to be a part of and make folk think that you desire to be everyone's groupie, cheering with them, to ride skulkingly in any and every sect's bus so to speak. I'm not merely talking religious sects, but also political, social, ideological, and philosophical.

Yet, for those who can see through the foggy glass fascade, it's clear. You seem to only get your panties in a theocratic wad in these comment threads when someone mentions anything about Christianity.

Let me attempt once again to clear the air. No humanoid is perfect, but with the help of the Holy Spirit, who resides inside every believer in the Lord Jesus Christ as Redeemer for their sins, is our comforter and is a willing helper in discerning the eternal from the temporal, and right from wrong, and to more effectively understand His Word and to live by it. Will we transgress and make mistakes? Yes. Will He forgive us if we ask Him earnestly? Sure. With that in mind, however, we shouldn't take that assurance haughtily and so declare, "Well, no one is perfect, what the hell...do what ya will!" or something to that effect. After all, there will be a judgment of rewards and saints will be held to account for both good and bad deeds done in this life (II Corinthians 5:9-11) as well as the Great White Throne judgment for the lost (Revelation 20:11-15). Most are familiar with the latter, but not so much the former. Yes, there are rewards (recompense) for bad as well as good.

If we didn't have the ability to choose evil over good, we would never become wise. If God didn't allow us to sin, we would never get to repent and avoid sin in the future.Sigh...that's like saying nobody can make wise choices in life without first having swam in the sewer to obtain some wisdom. Does a person have to become a cocaine junkie before they make a wise decision never to try the stuff and become one in the first place? No! That's nonsense. You're forgetting that you were born with the sinful nature so you need to repent as soon as you are old enough to be held accountable; I don't presume to know when someone has reached an age of accountability, only God knows any individual's heart and determine if they understand the difference b/w right and wrong. Even so, what I quoted you sayin' there is unfortunately often illustrative of the "self-righteous" mindset most have about themselves. They'll haughtily claim, "Hey, I've never killed anyone," "I've never robbed anyone," "I've never raped anyone," "I've never gossiped about anyone," and so on, ad infinitum. They never consider whether they have ever thought about doing any of those things or simply violated ONE of the Ten Commandments. You violate one, you're guilty of violating all. God's standard is perfection, after all.

This very thing is probably what will ensnare and does ensnare so many that somehow they'll make it to Heaven because they haven't done the REALLY "evil" sins like murder, rape, torture, etc. All and any sin is worthy of death, however. I hope I did rain on someone's haughty parade of "self-righteousness." Don't anyone think they're in any better shape than Manson, Kemper, or Hitler. Nope, unless they're born again. And guess what? Some of those folk may be born again! Hallelujah! How do you feel Lemuel about, say, meeting Dahmer on the other side? Any soul saved is great news, so I hope you didn't feel entitled.

It sounds crazy, but a compassionate God loves our sins. They are the only way we can learn, and the only way God can extend His forgiveness and grace. Evil is necessary, and will never be absent from this world. It is God's plan. Yet, we must avoid it and oppose it. That is also God's plan.God gave us a free will, albeit limited, because He wanted people to love Him (which is shown, BTW, by obeying Him) by choice and not programmed to function as commanded like androids. He wants a two-way relationship. It has nothing at all to do with evil being necessary. Evil (merely more scary vernacular for "wrong"), after all, is the result of doing/thinking whatever is outside the Word of God and the will of God for your life. That, by definition, is wrong, ergo evil.

God hates sin, but He loves the sinner. Otherwise, if God loved sin, why on earth was the father of sin thrown out of Heaven if God loves sin? And, no, sin is not a way to LEARN what's RIGHT, it will only steer us possibly into some aspect of RIGHT, albeit temporarily, simply from the PAINFUL consequences; then again, it may, and usually does, metastasize into more heinous sins further down the road. The way to learn and grow is by reading and mediating upon His Word. Everyone is a sinner right off the get-go, right out of the womb, so we need His grace and mercy from the start and He's thankfully a very generous God with His grace, mercy, and forgiveness if we've accepted His Son's death on the cross and subsequent resurrection in propitiation for our sins and transgressions.

P.S.: Since this is has been far off-topic and unsuitable here, if you wish to continue this conversation, please feel free to e-mail me.

call me crazy lg. b.bent

2009-05-04T19:02:00.000-06:00

call me crazy lg.

b.bent

Great news, comrades -- the federally-sponsored 'K...

2009-05-04T17:08:00.000-06:00

Great news, comrades -- the federally-sponsored 'KKKlick It or Ticket' campaign is coming to a town near you later this month.

Half a century ago, the constitutionality of 'dragnet' roadblocks was widely doubted. After all, there is no 'probable cause' to stop vehicles at random. Amped-up DWI campaigns ended the right to unmolested travel in most states.

Now, checkpoints scrutinize motorists for the trivial offense of not having their seatbelts buckled. In my crappy east coast state, over 400 officers issued over 40,000 tickets in last year's campaign, raising several million FRNs. This year, they're warning us in advance of a 'zero tolerance' policy -- cruise into that checkpoint unbuckled, and you're gettin' nailed ... SUCKER.

Like the Chinese government, which bills the families for the bullet fired into the base of the skull of executed prisoners, the U.S. fedgov taxes us to pay for our own oppression.

Reckon a seatbelt could used to lynch a 'crat? LOL! Actually, I ain't laughin' ...

Hi Dixiedog, "As Martin Luther once said " we mus...

2009-05-04T12:05:00.000-06:00

Hi Dixiedog,

"As Martin Luther once said " we must remember the Devil is ultimately God's Devil"....
....we still should have been mindful of the fact that when you simply tell other folk (Christians specifically) that "God is in ultimate control" that that implies we should do NOTHING..."

IMHO, you are so right. Ultimately, none of us is capable of saving the soul of another. We are each responsible only for our own actions and their consequences, and nobody else's.

However we can and should counsel each other to be wise in our choices, which is what we do here on this blog. In that sense, we ARE our brother's helper, but not our brother's savior or judge. Yes, it is wrong to stand aside and do nothing and let evil pass unopposed, but ultimately we are only responsible before God for our own actions and our own souls.

God is all-powerful, yet there is still evil. Many can't understand why. It's because we have free will, and Satan is there at God's sufferance to offer us Satan's alternatives to goodness. If we didn't have the ability to choose evil over good, we would never become wise. If God didn't allow us to sin, we would never get to repent and avoid sin in the future.
If you have a child and carry it around in your arms so it won't fall down and bruise its knees, the child will never learn to walk, and then to run.

Those bruises are inevitable and necessary. Our choosing evil over good and getting bruised for it is inevitable and necessary so we can learn not to do it any more, but to choose good next time. Those who refuse to repent and learn from their mistakes are the lost souls.

(BTW, this is why I oppose Muslim Sharia Law or the establishment of a Christian theocracy in America. Compelling people by terror or by force to "be moral" is against God's plan of free will for us. It is enough that secular law restrains us from depriving each other of life and property.)

It sounds crazy, but a compassionate God loves our sins. They are the only way we can learn, and the only way God can extend His forgiveness and grace. Evil is necessary, and will never be absent from this world. It is God's plan. Yet, we must avoid it and oppose it. That is also God's plan.

You agree? Or am I crazy?

Here's a thought: A person (or nation) that has b...

2009-05-03T19:37:00.000-06:00

Here's a thought:

A person (or nation) that has been blessed by God, possesses a large degree of light, and has been historically looked upon as a stalwart against evil by other folk (or nations), whether rightly or wrongly doesn't matter. In reality, perception matters nonetheless. In my mind, it's desirable to be in that condition, but also dangerous as well.

For when that person (or nation), who possessed the light and knew better, shuns God and His Laws, the very source of those amazing blessings and strength, that person (or nation) will be punished and reap the harshest whirlwind, not the people (or nations) that have been living in darkness.

After all, they (other nations) don't know any better, but YOU (this nation) does. It's hard for me to explain it here, but that's how I see it.

Anyhow, as I see that on an individual level, I believe the principle applies as well on a national/international level as well.

Just a thought..

Mr. Grigg, There is a debate going on at a nursin...

2009-05-03T19:12:00.000-06:00

Mr. Grigg,

There is a debate going on at a nursing website I frequent, the topic being 'Can the government force nurses to work during an epidemic'?

I found it particularly curious that the vast majority of the members rejected this notion outright... and yet, the same majority didn't see the relationship to the government "forcing people to kill others in a war"!!

Here are some links about the State and it's voracious, all consuming maw:
* http://www.ahrq.gov/research/mce/index.html#Contents

* http://www.publichealthlaw.net/MSEHPA/MSEHPA2.pdf

respectfully,
Spook, RN

Howdy MoT, Good to see you're still around.No, ev...

2009-05-03T19:10:00.000-06:00

Howdy MoT,

Good to see you're still around.No, even though I "appear" here sporadically at times, it's I who should really be sayin that to YOU...heh.

Won't YOU stay for awhile this time ;)?

DD We must not forget that ultimately God is in co...

2009-05-03T19:09:00.000-06:00

DD
We must not forget that ultimately God is in control and He will do as He pleases - the scheming of the possessed not withstanding. Overnight this plan for a New World Order could totally unravel - without any help from the oppressed - if God so desires. As Martin Luther once said " we must remember the Devil is ultimately God's Devil"
I have to remind myself of this Truth often or else the dark clouds overhead and and on the horizon emotionally cripple me.Yes, understand that. I'm not naïve and have said as much myself in the past, echoing rick in this instance:

Nevertheless, as rick said, God is in sovereign control of everything and that's all I need to be reminded of. We must always keep our focus on the Lord and our faith in Him, not the circumstances we find ourselves in, as Daniel eloquently illustrated.In fact, the entire comment thread on that one post is most informative on that note. I don't really like being a broken record, so I won't repeat the stuff here, but I do grok that while many will search through the host's post archives, no one will really search through the archive of comments. After all, it's Will's writing that will always be the epicenter of interest, as it should be ;). So, if you have the time, read that thread, anon.

That all said, we still should have been mindful of the fact that when you simply tell other folk (Christians specifically) that "God is in ultimate control" that that implies we should do NOTHING and, hence, will lead, and has led, for decades and decades many good folk to do exactly NOTHING. As Burke stated, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." That was what I was alluding to above. Let's also remember that faith without works is dead [James 2:14-17 (NIV)].

Ergo, when I "connect the dots," America has been brought low and is now spiritually dead because the faithful have done for decades and decades essentially NOTHING to help stem the wave of immorality (and ALL that that encapsulates), when it was still in an embryonic state and feasible to do so, that now plagues us in government, the entertainment venues, the workplace, the CHURCH, basically everywhere. Real simple to understand, but very unfortunate.

Bob has got it right -- 'Homeland' is an Orwellian...

2009-05-03T07:33:00.000-06:00

Bob has got it right -- 'Homeland' is an Orwellian term; an alien term; one adapted from the Third Reich-era Fatherland. Before we can think clearly, we must reject poisoned, tendentious, power-glorifying terminology.

The October 2001 unPATRIOTic Act instituted de facto martial law. All the rest is fine-tuning and details. Again, plain thinking requires the plain speaking of calling this legislation the Martial Law Act of 2001.

One thing I know for damned sure -- I don't want to live in no stinkin' 'homeland.'

liberranter, you bring up the point about asking ...

2009-05-02T11:22:00.000-06:00

liberranter,

you bring up the point about asking a police officer or miltary person how will they respond if ordered to do something contrary to their oath.

being a Christian, and in the military, this is a pointless question.

the real question that we should all ask ourselves is, "when it comes down to it, will you risk everything and die for Christ, or will you try to save your neck?"

"he who tries to save his life shall lose it..." you know the rest.

so it's not really what will mr. or ms. govt employee do. who cares. it really boils down to, "what will you do when you are caught in between the righteous minority and the wicked majority?"

we get to wrapped up in what everyone else is gonna do. makes no difference what these folks do if you don't make it yourself. what is God (whose son is Jesus Christ) telling YOU to do? do that, and forget about everyone else.

and when that has settled in, go watch the new star trek movie :-)

rick

When the DHS was established, I thought the name h...

2009-05-02T09:39:00.000-06:00

When the DHS was established, I thought the name had sort of a Reichish feel to it.

DD..!!!! Good to see you're still around. Being ...

2009-05-02T08:27:00.000-06:00

DD..!!!! Good to see you're still around. Being a cynic is all too easy in this world. It's the ones running around with a smile on their face while taking it up the you know where, and LIKING it, that puzzle me.

The Church, and I generally mean Christianity in the case of the US, has been so co-opted for so very long that there is no meaningful outcry. Fascism indeed arrived wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross, but only a few had eyes to see and ears to hear.

Take a look at the election circus and the madness we see every four years where tens of millions engage mindlessly in their 'Two-minute hate" charade. Tell someone that its meaningless and they look at your as though you're some sort of heretic.

Didn't someone say "what if there was a war and nobody showed up"... or something like that? Same thing for elections, the latest fad, or even proclamations of eminent doom and gloom from obscure and all together mysterious virii.

Withdrawing your participation in these manipulated events is withdrawing your consent. Still, people are so brainwashed by advertising, pop culture, the boob-tube and pubelick skrewls, that those concepts are from Mars!

Heck! Start a completely alternate government, refuse to participate any further with the other, and watch how quickly they'll bring out the long knives. Verboten!

All that grandiose verbal vomit about "democracy" will vanish so fast as to make your head spin. Caesar brooks no opposition or even questioning of his authority or the memory hole used in broad daylight. A gun in their hands, but not yours of course, is their ultimate answer to your taking a peek behind the curtain.

Ultimately this needs to happen because you can't reform that which refuses to be reformed. It "likes" what it is, and its been getting away with it, quite nicely thank you, for so long that to think a minority of people, crying about whats been dead and buried for ages, is going to snap it to attention is absurd! Who in that scenario is the greater fool?

So much the better to spend your energies doing something truly productive like building a vegetable garden or reloading shells.

"being trained as a narcotics-sniffing dog, an unc...

2009-05-02T08:21:00.000-06:00

"being trained as a narcotics-sniffing dog, an unconscionable act of government animal abuse"
======
Can the author explain, please?

Thanks.

Sometimes we underestimate the degree to which "pu...

2009-05-02T07:59:00.000-06:00

Sometimes we underestimate the degree to which "public health" issues undermine our liberty. Off the top of my head, I can think of several important ways:

1) I have read that state licensing of marriage began based on a public health premise.

2) Of course, the whole nightmare of state mandated vaccination is an outgrowth of public health efforts.

3) In addition to the direct damage done by 2), the whole vaccination program has become the ultimate means for the state to indoctrinate its subjects into the wonders of collectivism, how one needs to vaccinate one's children "for the public good".

4) The abuses of the FDA, and indeed the whole War on Drugs, have a public health underpinning.

just a thought: "several police agencies and canin...

2009-05-02T07:10:00.000-06:00

just a thought: "several police agencies and canine officers a chance to practice their skills in drug detection," and to offer the police dogs in particular "a chance to work in a real life

If a cop kills your dog, you or the dog are at fault. If you kill a canine officer, you will prosecuted for murder. So far as I know, this means that a cop dog is human.

mongol Doc Ellis 124