Comments on Pro Libertate: The Tragedy and Farce of Collective Guilt (UPDATED, June 13)

"...he brings the standing of his political o...

2009-09-26T21:20:07.630-06:00

"...he brings the standing of his political office whenever he attends their far-right-conspiracy-theory conferences."

The company Mr. Paul keeps on Capitol Hill is much more disreputable than any he finds when he's polite enough to accept speaking invitations before groups you dislike.

Congress is a crime wave in perpetual session; it doesn't discuss theories about conspiracies, it routinely engages in conspiracies against the Constitution and our prosperity (of which the Wall Street "bailout" is a memorable, but hardly the sole, example).

I'm more concerned about the fact that Dr. Paul, as a physician of some distinction and a serious Christian, is lending an unearned moral standing to Congress.

It's a challenge to play dumb about this matter, but you seem to be equal to that challenge.

"In his book Neiwert accused Dr. Paul of help...

2009-09-26T18:57:46.566-06:00

"In his book Neiwert accused Dr. Paul of helping to "mainstream" the ideas of the "Radical Right" ... This is because Ron Paul's presidential campaign promoted what Neiwert dismisses as "classical Patriot monetary and taxation theories""

Well, because of that and the fact that he brings the standing of his political office whenever he attends their far-right-conspiracy-theory conferences.

It's rather hard to play dumb on this one, which is probably why you didn't even bother to address it.

--KenDowe

Dr. George Tiller was shot dead as he was walking ...

2009-06-24T16:35:13.466-06:00

Dr. George Tiller was shot dead as he was walking into his Sunday morning church services. Dr. Tiller was one of the few late-term abortion providers in the country.

I know Mr. Grigg likes movies (like I do), so here...

2009-06-16T23:11:45.819-06:00

I know Mr. Grigg likes movies (like I do), so here's one for you: Minority Report. It's getting closer by the day.

And why not adopt a legal doctrine of "preventive prosecution"? We've had no problem pursuing "preventive war" ...

http://tinyurl.com/39jza3

Will, is it just me or is there something ESPECIAL...

2009-06-14T18:00:14.405-06:00

Will, is it just me or is there something ESPECIALLY repulsive about Erbe's words being part of the "Thomas Jefferson Street" blog?

Will, I think you have, in other words, pointed ou...

2009-06-14T10:47:54.636-06:00

Will,
I think you have, in other words, pointed out much the same thing that Christian anarchists such as Vernard Eller have pointed out in their writings: The left and the right are mere earthly archys in conflict with each other in a game of king of the hill. One side wins and the other goes into a phase of diminished power and the cycle starts all over again. Rather than a just world, one bloc vies with another bloc for power. Once they have it in their hands, they are inevitably corrupted by it. The superior path is to seek no power over others, but to take responsibility for oneself. Collectives tend to empower machinery for oppression; individualistic mindsets are more prone to embrace their own personal responsibility in life.

@Bob: "I don't think they know how to ch...

2009-06-14T08:47:31.870-06:00

@Bob:

"I don't think they know how to chop through and find the clear fallacies"

I wish I believed in Bob's view of the human race as merely deluded by logical rhetoric, but I believe that those that follow the twisted logic of Olbermann inc. are incited through their baser nature and through hate or intolerance of the ideology or group under persecution by .gov.

Mere children are capable of realizing that events or words or 'not fair'.

The other catalyst for a persuasion to deny 'others' equality and to deny life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness to 'others' is personal gain. Many are pragmatic as to what will create movement essential to their own well-being and do not cringe to deny 'others' well-being.

Then there are the boot-kicking thugs and sadists who enjoy subjugating 'others'.

Olbermann is well aware, using monkey antics as well as time-proven rhetorical methods.

You're a scholar and a truther.

2009-06-14T07:44:17.449-06:00

You're a scholar and a truther.

"Leaving aside the unappetizing mental image ...

2009-06-14T00:45:55.728-06:00

"Leaving aside the unappetizing mental image of a “patina” that is acquired through regurgitation, Neiwert’s argument — if that word can be tortured into applying here — is a crude and dishonest syllogism: The anti-Semite James von Brunn opposed the Federal Reserve; Ron Paul and many others oppose the Federal Reserve; therefore, opponents of the Federal Reserve are anti-Semites."

This is absolutely correct, but for the mass of people who have no training in formal logic or knowledge of logical fallacies guys like Obermann unfortunately have a lot of clout. I don't think they really know how to chop through and see the clear fallacies.

Enough of that though, seriously God help us, it gets more obvious that they are going to have a purge here in America akin to Stalinist Russia, when the media Fox and CNN are in unison demonizing true patriots and linking us constantly with white supremecists it doesn't take too much inference to see where this is headed.

How the HELL did this happen, it seems like yester...

2009-06-14T00:15:04.894-06:00

How the HELL did this happen, it seems like yesterday that we had at least the APPEARANCE of freedom. Thanks to the "Greatest Generation" who voted the way they did over the last few decades and helped create the police state. Gentlemen is there a GLIMMER of hope left?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/us/politics/21obama.html?_r=1
Obama Is Said to Consider Preventive Detention Plan
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: May 20, 2009

WASHINGTON — President Obama told human rights advocates at the White House on Wednesday that he was mulling the need for a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried

Well said, as always, Mr.Grigg! Olbermann's c...

2009-06-13T22:03:10.041-06:00

Well said, as always, Mr.Grigg!

Olbermann's collective guilt ploy seeks to encourage a "cultural revolution" in in the USA. Any taint of political contamination, no matter how ludicrous connected, must be result in re-education, imprisonment or liquidation.

All tyrants do this, "just to be sure" with their lists of real and imagines enemies. The only difference is between Fascist and Socialist method is that the former is racial based, while the latter is political based. The Soviets were most effective in muzzling dissent, by threatening the extended families of those who rages against the machine.

So I wonder what Star of David patch equivalent will be forced upon those to wear who disagree with the present administration.
I can see government sponsered "hate rallys" where citizens are spurred on by para-government groups to harass and punish those who are not politically correct.

The bulldozing parts of cities article also has so...

2009-06-13T18:17:18.601-06:00

The bulldozing parts of cities article also has some interesting comments, the on that advocated everyone moving into the cities as an antidote to "urban sprawl", was especially interesting.

Is this the beginning of some sort of reverse Pol Pot move? Instead of a death march into the countryside to recreate the Socialist Man, will we be herded ("encouraged" at first) into the cities for the govt. to better tabs on us ala Fahrenheit 451?

A couple of years ago I would've suppressed such a paranoid thought, but as the real news resembles The Onion more and more, I increasingly accede to this instinct now.

“…the not remote possibility that people like von ...

2009-06-13T14:37:46.156-06:00

“…the not remote possibility that people like von brunn had Feds as handlers.” I agree, the timing is certainly suspicious. After the government had “leaked” the extremists-are-terrorists reports to link “anti-government speech” and “terrorism” inexorably together in peoples’ minds, they had to have “incidents” in order to advance to the next step of “rounding up.”

In spite of the fact that Olbermann's tirades ...

2009-06-13T13:07:37.564-06:00

In spite of the fact that Olbermann's tirades against the abuses of the Bush administration were often correct, it wasn't too hard to see then that Keith serves a larger purpose that has nothing to do with government encroachments against individual freedom. That larger purpose became crystal clear this week with his smear-by-association tactics against Ron Paul.
Like Fellow Traveler Glenn Beck, who has also tortured logic and reason by associating genuine American patriotism with Islamic terrorism, Olbermann's true paymasters are the (to most, anyway) unseen hands behind global collectivism.
This little orchestrated charade by propagandists Olbermann, Beck, Michaal (Redved) Medved, Joe Scarbrough and many others to demonize and conflate Ron Paul, anti-Federal Reserve sentiment and real patriotism with racism, murder and Islamic terrorism would be amusing for its cartoonish qualities if it were not so chilling.

R. Cozine

Mr. Olbermann reminds me of Goebbels: if Goebbels ...

2009-06-13T11:12:17.148-06:00

Mr. Olbermann reminds me of Goebbels: if Goebbels were overdosing on Viagra. His mouth rarely opens: he spits the words out of the sides.

By the way, doesn't the sentence, "US cit...

2009-06-13T11:00:34.641-06:00

By the way, doesn't the sentence, "US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive" sound an awful lot like the Vietnam-era phrase, "We have to destroy the village in order to save it"?

Dave - Erstwhile Urban Wanderer

How convenient that these "hate crimes" ...

2009-06-13T10:57:36.598-06:00

How convenient that these "hate crimes" should occur as the "hate crime" bill, HR 1913, moves through Congress.

The author of that article makes the obvious connection between "hate crimes" and "preventive detention" in suggesting that we lock up "haters" before they commit crimes.

I know Mr. Grigg likes movies (like I do), so here's one for you: Minority Report. It's getting closer by the day.

Dave - Erstwhile Urban Wanderer

Hope this helps: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finan...

2009-06-13T10:40:26.376-06:00

Hope this helps:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/
financialcrisis/5516536/US-cities-may-have-to-be-bulldozed-in-order-to-survive.html

http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/
images/wildlands_map.jpg

~ Benjamin Horton

This country has had, in effect, an illegitimate g...

2009-06-13T10:20:34.454-06:00

This country has had, in effect, an illegitimate government ever since Dishonest Abe's War Against Southern Independence.

Keith Olbermann is, if you would pardon the expres...

2009-06-13T10:19:00.618-06:00

Keith Olbermann is, if you would pardon the expression, an anal cavity.

Keith Olbermann is an idiot

2009-06-13T09:25:44.849-06:00

Keith Olbermann is an idiot

The END of the 1st Amendment and others. The Commi...

2009-06-13T06:22:44.879-06:00

The END of the 1st Amendment and others. The Commisars mean business. Rahm Israel Emanuel is serious.

Paul Craig Roberts said that the Hate Crime bill, if passed, and it looks like it will, will be used against SPEECH.

Those college kids who voted for the Puppet will rue the day.

cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/12/usnews/whispers/main5083962.shtml

Round Up Hate-Promoters Now, Before Any More Holocaust Museum Attacks
By Bonnie Erbe
Jun 11, 2009

From the Telegraph article link by Anonymous: &qu...

2009-06-13T02:23:56.770-06:00

From the Telegraph article link by Anonymous:

" Nobody will be forced to move, said Mr Kildee."

No? Perhaps it will become 'unsafe' to live in areas without police protection, electricity, postal delivery, ambulance services, and functioning infrastructure. But no one will be Forced to move!

@Deb:
Mr. Horton is referring to the communitarian way: or a land grab to be implemented on the part of the elite through the agency of thuggary and useful idiots...the agenda refers to Agenda 21, a sustainability "project" of the UN. There is also a NYTimes article on the proposal of razing private property in Flint:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/business/22flint.html?scp=1&sq=Flint%20Michigan%20&st=cse

Collective guilt is reserved for those who fail to...

2009-06-13T01:20:14.550-06:00

Collective guilt is reserved for those who fail to accept the absolute truth of the commission of the wise, or the uber-rulers. The 'party line' has not changed, that is why it is so startling to watch Olberman suddenly support Homeland Security and the new 'extremist' reports. It is interesting that in quoted testimony retrieved from the Homeland Security website, Chertoff proclaimed that definition for terrorist is one who would, "come against the architecture of the 21st century." 2007, Violent Homegrown Radicalization and Terrorism Act:
"The bill defines "violent radicalization" as "the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change." 1 Several analysts believe that the bill, if signed into law, may be used to criminalize forms of civil disobedience and direct action long used by environmentalists, anti-war activists, and indigenous rights campaigners. 2 The legislation has been dubbed the "Thought Crimes Act" and "A Police Provocateur's Dream". 3"

http://911research.wtc7.net/post911/legislation/htpa.html

The word "extremism" will accompany any charge against independent thought filed by the elite cabal and manufactured by hyperventilating fear-factory farmers of fabricated fantasy: like Mr. Olbermann.

You repeat what appears to be a common error; Von ...

2009-06-13T00:20:40.879-06:00

You repeat what appears to be a common error; Von Brunn tried to arrest/kidnap Paul Volcker (1981), not Greenspan.