Comments on Pro Libertate: Ron Paul: The Smearbund Hates What It Can't Control and Doesn't Understand (Updated, 12/26)

THIS IS A FORM LETTER THAT ADEQUATELY ADDRESSES AL...

2008-01-02T00:25:00.000-07:00

THIS IS A FORM LETTER THAT ADEQUATELY ADDRESSES ALL OF DONDERO'S FLAWED AND FALLACIOUS ARGUMENTS (INCLUDING HIS APPEAL TO MY AUTHORITY, AND THE AUTHORITY OF OTHER _REAL_ LIBERTARIANS). NO FURTHER TIME SHOULD BE WASTED WITH HIM. GET OUT, MAKE MONEY, SUPPORT RON PAUL!

Dondero regularly uses the fallacious debate tactics listed here:
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html

Of all of Dondero's arguments, these are his favorites, which you can find in almost every one of his posts:
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#hominem - In almost every single one of his posts where he argues in favor of pro-defense libertarianism, he accuses the refuter of his arguments to not be libertarian, but to be leftist, or anarchist, or whatever --these are all disingenuous arguments
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#half_truth - Most of Eric's arguments and all of his defenses of Ghouliani
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#selective -Eric's historical arguments
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#false_expert
- Eric claims himself to be the "most libertarian", but he's only been a staffer for a real libertarian, and a paid petitioner who never reads any books. ...Not expert material at all. And other libertarian petitioners make him look like a real slacker, especially Russ Baggett from OK, and Daryl Bonner. THere is a cottage industry full of libertarian petitioners, and some are better than others, but none of them really comprise the intellectual freedom movement of America, and more than any individual who is pro-freedom, and has put in effective time helping to fight big government. From the standpoint of being a volunteer freedom fighter, noone has done more than Scott Bludorn in IL, but Eric doesn't want to make the list too long, so he claims that both he and myself are more libertarian than someone like Bludorn, which is laughable. Eric and I have usually been paid to work for freedom, which is no less admirable than what Bludorn has done, but it is easier. Bludorn is in debt right now, and he went into debt protecting private land from eminent domain confiscation, as a volunteer, and it wasn't even his land! He is more of a soldier for freedom than I am, and he is one more person who supports Ron Paul and despises Ghouliani. In short, there are no libertarian Ghouliani supporters, but there are a few confused people who don't really understand politics who claim to be libertarians who support Ghouliani. This is Eric, and maybe Dennis Miller, and a few others.
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#expert -appears regularly in various forms
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#authority -appears regularly in various forms
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/authority.html -appears when he tells you how he became a libertarian, because of a quote somebody told him, about libertarians being "pro-choice Republicans" as if that somehow eliminated the need for him having a significant body of knowledge

Wasting time with Dondero is just that: it's letting him win his goal. His entire purpose is to waste libertarians' time --his goal is not honest debate. At first, I thought it was, and that he was just stupid and stubborn.

...Not so. He has dedicated himself to wasting libertarians' time. Possibly for a paycheck, ...but who cares why? (He proved this to me by not addressing any point I had made, after I had completely refuted his bogus arguments. He just repeated himself. Repetition is what 3 year olds do to try to 'win' arguments. Let's face it, Eric is at his computer 24-7 pimping his favorite authoritarian, Ghouliani. If we do the same to respond, then we waste time that could have been spent supporting freedom via the Paul campaign.)

The only proper way to deal with Dondero is to ignore him, let him make his fallacious posts, and link to Ghouliani's track record with a form letter for any noobs who might wander onto the board at a later date (possibly seeking the truth), after Dondero's incessant sheeplike bleating in defense of fascism has driven all true intellectual debate away.
My Blog on Giuliani and Dondero's Anti-Intellectual Pro-Authoritarian, un-American Relationship

End of Argument.

> it is most likely a "conspiracy" in the precise ...

2007-12-29T12:19:00.000-07:00

> it is most likely a "conspiracy" in the precise etymological sense of the expression -- a large group of people "breathing together," or sharing the same inspiration

Will, I trust you have not forgotten the Insiders and the interesting fact of their {ahem} penetration of the MSM.

Eric Dondero wrote:
> Umm, I do favor abolishing the Selective Service and ending the Military Draft. Why do you think I joined the Draft Board?

So Eric, let me get this straight: In order to bring down the slavemasters and set all their works at naught in the end, instead of:

- counseling potential registrants to "monkeywrench" the draft-registration system; or
- counseling registrants to look for "loopholes" in the draft law; or
- counseling registrants on other strategies for draft resistance;

you volunteered to be an overseer of registrants for the slavers, thereby enabling them to be . . . more-efficient slavers. That's logic.

> BTW, there are two other Libertarians in the US who also serve on the Board, one of them is Tom Knapp from St. Louis, a well-known Radical Libertarian.

What's your "strategery" with that: to exempt as many potential draftees &/or draftees who appeal their classifications as possible? To put yourselves in position to "monkeywrench" the SSS in some unspecified way at some unpredictable moment? To "bore from within"?

Mark Odell

Will,Regarding your "correction" on Dondero, which...

2007-12-28T23:19:00.000-07:00

Will,

Regarding your "correction" on Dondero, which provided Dondero's reasoning for joining the Selective Service board, ie, to bring about it's end:

Stefan Molyneux, over at Freedomainradio.com, would probably compare Dondero's reasoning with the following metaphor (in fact he has, on numerous occasions, used this metaphor)-- imagine a child molestation ring. You think the child molestation ring is an abominable evil and you seek to end it. How do you do this? You decide to JOIN the child molestation ring and bring it down from the inside, either by convincing people or rising through the ranks to head-child-molester and then pulling the plug on the party. So, your strategy for ending child molestation, is to become a child molester yourself and spend your time molesting children everyday.

Does this make sense, Dondero? Can we reasonably believe we will not only END child molestation (selective service) but that we will also not be guilty of the evil ourselves by joining the child molestation ring (Selective Service board)?

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!11Thank you, thank you, th...

2007-12-27T21:59:00.000-07:00

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!11

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this masterful column. Dondero has been meandering around the internets for months now leeching off of Paul's success. Apparently the platform of his "libertarian" Republican group is "Nothing says liberty like a little war."

He is, of course, a fool and liar.

Unfortunately it took segregationist Governor Wall...

2007-12-27T08:36:00.000-07:00

Unfortunately it took segregationist Governor Wallace to reveal the truth that "there's not a dime's worth of difference between" Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats willingly went along with the War in Iraq, suspension of Habeas Corpus, detaining protesters, banning books like America Deceived (book) from Amazon, stealing private lands (Kelo decision), warrant-less wiretapping and refusing to investigate 9/11 properly. They are both guilty of treason.
Support Dr. Ron Paul and save this great nation.

http://themedium.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/24/the-...

2007-12-27T08:25:00.000-07:00

http://themedium.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/24/the-ron-paul-vid-lash/?ex=1199163600&en=7b25470d94ea3b8b&ei=5070&emc=eta1/

One moneybomb is a fluke, a thing to ooh and ahh about while simultaneously playing the "serious" card and asking "...but will all this intertubes activity translate into real votes?"
A second money bomb, 50% larger, a month later is a wake up call. Not a fluke, even the MSM has a few folks who can crunch numbers.
Median donation $50, average $105, 50,000+ donors on a single day, 200,000+ donors over the year.
5000+ show up for a rally at the Liberty Bell on a miserable november day. ( Personal observation, I just returned from a 10 hour round trip over the Christmas holiday through PA. The Only Signs for any Presidential candidate that I saw were for Dr Paul. Approximately 2 dozen signs in front of houses and hanging from overpasses and strung on fence lines ).
For everyone who has put their own small change money into Dr. Paul's campaign there are 3, 5, 10 others who haven't but who will be voting for him. For some of us, coming up with money is not easy but coming up with the time required to vote is, for those who have already invested into Dr. Paul, it is even easier to find the time to sit through the caususes or stand on the line to vote in the primary. I am one of the lucky ones, I worked for Goldwater in 64,
voted for Dr. Paul in 88 and will vote for him in the PA primary in 08 and the national election in 08.
Now practice along with me: President Paul. Sounds like victory to me.

I am British and I can tell you that Ron Paul is a...

2007-12-27T06:18:00.000-07:00

I am British and I can tell you that Ron Paul is an inspiration here too. No one in America need worry about how he will be received by the rest of the world, he will instantly elevate America back to its old position as beacon of hope. Anti-Americanism is about the corruption we see in your politics. It will be forgotten in a heartbeat if you elect this man. And I can finally visit America (as soon as you guys remove the fingerprinting-on-arrival gross insult you have adopted since 911).
PLEASE!

Oh Bravo! and well said. I knew I was reading a ki...

2007-12-27T04:10:00.000-07:00

Oh Bravo! and well said. I knew I was reading a kindred spirit when I saw the LOTR reference which I often reference; in fact, just did so again today.

You are brilliant and articulate and possibly the best writer I've encountered in the blogsphere so far. Riveting and incisive work!

Damn... I want to say more, add more accolades. But I'm done for now. I'll be bookmarking this site.

Les Visible
http://smokingmirrors.blogspot.com/

Thanks for this commentary, WNG. What sticks out ...

2007-12-26T22:11:00.000-07:00

Thanks for this commentary, WNG. What sticks out the most to me is Eric Dondero's assessment of Ron Paul's stage-presence in the Paul-Giuliani exchange.

This sticks out to me, because I recollect how Pat Buchanan, who has a really good command presence and is a skillful orator/debator, was attacked by his opponents for exactly that. Pat was referred to as "angry" and so forth.

Ron Paul, on the other hand, has a very meek, humble, and mild-mannered delivery. Eric Dondero was ridiculing him for the meekness.

What these arguments do is get you distracted with the delivery of the message, as opposed to the message itself. And apparently, there is "no" right way to deliver such a truthful message. Either your delivery is psycho-analyzed down to "anger," or it is psycho-analyzed down to "weakness."

Eric dondero and hi ilk will be relegated to the t...

2007-12-26T20:43:00.000-07:00

Eric dondero and hi ilk will be relegated to the trash bin of hsitory while the message of freedom and liberty being promoted by Ron Paul will live on. Notice how every one of Dondero's comments on this blog are liberally sprinkled with "I" and "me" and generally follow the theme "all the great things I have done" while the good doctors speeches and interviews focus on the fundementals of liberty and are totally devoid of references to himself. Hmmmm. Which one of these messengers (and their message )will be remembered 50 years from now. Certainly not the one who is full of himself. Eric Dondero please do us a favor.... go hang out with your mainstream libertarian friends like Ventura and Nugent. Heck maybe you could all start a rock band an jump around on stage in tight briefs chanting support for the War.

But, Mr. Dondero, what about the more important po...

2007-12-26T20:26:00.000-07:00

But, Mr. Dondero, what about the more important point in Will's blog--that you support the (based on provable lies) War in Iraq and the open ended sham better known as the War on Terror? And what about your assertions that, based on his opposition to aid for Israel, Ron Paul is "anti-Semitic" (whatever that means)?

Editor,Again, I formally ask you for a correction ...

2007-12-26T17:14:00.000-07:00

Editor,

Again, I formally ask you for a correction on your statement that I somehow favor the Military Draft. Could you explain to me how in the world did you get that idea?

I have an extensive history in the Draft Resistance movement. Perhaps you are not aware, that in 1985 I was almost thrown in jail for refusing to sign the Selective Service Registration card.

I was a the first Test Case. The Draft had been reinstituted by Carter in 1979. Took effect in 1980. I joined the Navy in 1981 at 18. When I finished my four years with an honorable discharge in 1985, I was still under the age of the required 25. But I had never signed the SS Card. Why should I have signed it?

Well, the SS came after me. Threatened with me, pleaded with me, cajoled me. Did everything they could just to get me to sign.

I told them to 'F' off. Even the Top Guy at the Agency called me. I threatened him with massive publicity, "Honorably discharged Navy Vet goes to jail for refusing to Register for the Draft." In Navy Town Jacksonville, Florida of all places.

Needless to say they backed off.

Paul Jacob, Scott Kohlhaas and I have been leading the opposition to the Draft ever since, both here in the US and worldwide.

In fact, 6 months ago I had a guest on my radio show "Libertarian Politics Live" on Blog Talk from Bermudans for Draft Resistance.

In 1994, Kohlhaas and I lobbied newly elected Republican Congressman to introduce a bill to abolish the Selective Service System. We managed to get 6 Co-Sponsors.

In the late 1990s as a Staffer for Ron Paul, Chief of Staff Tom Lizardo and I got Ron to sign on to a similar bill each year for 6 years straight.

How in the world you could get such information wrong about me, is absolutely mind-boggling.

Ask anyone who knows me, and they will tell you that "Yes" Dondero is one of the leading advocates in the Nation for elimination the Military Draft.

Here's a list of references:

Paul Jacob
Scott Kohlhaas
Tom Lizardo
Jake Witmer
Tom Knapp (Fellow Selective Service Board member)

great article.Hope your God is once again with you...

2007-12-26T16:56:00.000-07:00

great article.
Hope your God is once again with you and allows the good doctor to cure your countries ills.

I was one of the 25,000 first time contributors to...

2007-12-26T16:51:00.000-07:00

I was one of the 25,000 first time contributors to the Ron Paul presidential campaign on Dec. 16th. I really like Dr. Paul’s adherence to the philosophies of our founding fathers. I especially like the “no entanglements” part. With every pothole that I crash through and every creaky bridge that I survive, I think towards the time when President Paul's sound domestic/foreign policies have Americans working to repair USA infrastructure instead of destroying and then rebuilding the rest of the world. Why just the cash given to Israel alone would have paid for the "$14 Billion Dollar Big Dig" in just over two (2) years. Next year Israel wants the cash in euros.

So many of Dr. Paul’s young supporters are written off as freaks, flakes or even worse. What I have come to understand is that many of them are the families and friends of all these young people coming back from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. They know that they are next to be shipped off to some foreign land to fight and die in these endless wars that only the bankers love. Is that why this government pushes so hard for ever more poverty stricken immigrants? They need the poor for their war! Say, NO MORE!

Our government has admitted that almost 4,000 of our children have been killed so far in this war for Israel. Tens of thousands have been horribly maimed and burned. A literal army of teenagers and twenty-somethings in their wheelchairs. They have been permanently disfigured and they will forever suffer from this insane war for Israel.

I am almost fifty years old and I have always voted. I have already changed my party to Republican for the primary in my state (FL). I will be voting for Dr. Paul.

For the first time in my life, I sent $50 to a politician.

Nicely done commentary and observation. The pictur...

2007-12-26T15:38:00.000-07:00

Nicely done commentary and observation. The picture of Rudy G. in drag is almost as amazing, but not for the same reason.

2007-12-26T14:23:00.000-07:00

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Will - what F2L said!I've been stewing for some ti...

2007-12-26T12:43:00.000-07:00

Will - what F2L said!
I've been stewing for some time about The New American and the circumstances of your exit, but you have really taken off. Their loss, but having to walk on coals has obviously tempered/strengthened your writing. It's like Jeff Beck leaving the Yardbirds. or something...
thanks for saying what I wish I said, better.

Another great column, Will. The only point with w...

2007-12-26T12:20:00.000-07:00

Another great column, Will. The only point with which I would take issue is your caution in calling the smear campaign a conspiracy. I don't see how such an organized and thorough campaign could originate without an order from Mordor.-)

Excellent once again! Always an eye opening and pl...

2007-12-26T11:19:00.000-07:00

Excellent once again! Always an eye opening and pleasurable read.
You have the guts to write the truth and it gives me hope !
When I look around me and listen to so many americans that buy into
the lies and propaganda of the smearbund i do admit to feeling
hopeless about the american people being able to resist the shackles
that are being quickly fastened around their ankles.........

The USA has citizens who support Israel and would ...

2007-12-26T10:54:00.000-07:00

The USA has citizens who support Israel and would use the funds saved with no income tax to support Israel. And the better our economy and the freer the trade, the more they would have to send.
Federal funds come with golden handcuffs; individual liberty to spend your earnings as you wish, does not.

"All politics is local" rings true. While it's tr...

2007-12-26T09:07:00.000-07:00

"All politics is local" rings true. While it's true that the power brokers of our world involve themselves with national and world matters, and therefore fear the Ron Pauls of our time, the real power resides in our own localities. If we could demand truth and sound Constitutional governing principles in our own towns/counties/states we would remove the basis of the power that has been collected nationally. How many with Ron Paul's courage are left?

Uncle Raisin
www.UncleRaisin.com
"Raisin" the Standard Against Injustice

Some consider Ron Paul anti-Semitic. Some consider...

2007-12-26T09:00:00.000-07:00

Some consider Ron Paul anti-Semitic. Some consider him racist. Their reasons are similar. Ron Paul believes in treating all citizens equally, regardless of race. He believes in treating all friendly countries equally, regardless of the Israel lobby.

Dondero is nothing more then a greasy opporutunist...

2007-12-26T08:01:00.000-07:00

Dondero is nothing more then a greasy opporutunist who sniffs a chance to pickup a congressional seat. He just proves what most already know, some people will do or say anything to get elected.

Holy Moly, what an insightful jam-packed read!Whet...

2007-12-26T07:14:00.000-07:00

Holy Moly, what an insightful jam-packed read!

Whether it highly concerted or not, one who dredges the news can definitely dissern patterns in the smear-memes (smemes?) regarding Ron Paul.

He wouldn't be getting so much flak if he weren't over the target, as they say. They already have the neo-nazi and the hooker angle, what's next? I think it will be the chupacabra.

Headline:
"Goat-Sucker Runs Phone-Bank for Paul Campaign"

Again, great piece!

Good article.It's so obvious now, it's like an ins...

2007-12-26T07:01:00.000-07:00

Good article.

It's so obvious now, it's like an inside joke...you just make the false claims more absurd then the those who originate them.

Dondero sounds like he put on a tin foil neocon hat. You can tell by the conspiracy theories of that global boogeyman that is everywhere and everyone at once.