Comments on Pro Libertate: The Grand Old (Torture) Party

You seem to be observing a problem of "blind obedi...

2006-10-06T06:26:00.000-06:00

You seem to be observing a problem of "blind obedience" that is portrayed as righteousness by the "Theo-Cons". This submission to civic authority actually has its counterpart in the submission to ecclesiastical authority. Have you heard your leaders (like I have heard) boast this unspoken Mormon doctrine? "Do what your priesthood leader (especially those in the highest positions) tells you to do - right or wrong, you will be blessed for your obedience" This type of obedience was originally frowned upon by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, but now it is a badge of righteousness flaunted by both leader and follower alike. How and when did this conviction of irresponsibility develop among the leaders and followers? Is it an echo of the same irresponsibility documented in centuries of human existence? Is it not the same decision of many in our pre-existent state? Let me suggest that it may be a direct outcome of one's interpretation of Joseph Smith's Article of Faith #8 where "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, ..."? Directly from that doctrine comes the familiar belief on how to support an illegal war morally - the accountability of the murder of a man in wartime will be held by the magistrate who required your subscription albeit "against your will." (We are willfully supporting the war, are we not?) Is not this test of our souls the test of knowing and perceiving God and goodness in this life? Is not this the test of who we are and whom we serve - God or mammon? Remembering the adage "many are called, but few are chosen," do we truly number ourselves among the "chosen" if we blindly follow those who shall be numbered among those who are not "chosen"?

Cap'n -- Your father was both kind and wise. And I...

2006-09-27T13:54:00.000-06:00

Cap'n -- Your father was both kind and wise. And I agree with you that we're likely to take it in the "six" because of what our government is brewing right now. As the top JAG officers and many other active duty military leaders point out, our troops are likely to catch hell as a result of the Wee Decider's decision to play cutesy with Geneva.

Rick, what really hurts about the scourging of our Lord, what makes me weep as I think or write about it, is to know that I'm the one who's responsible.

My Dad taught me when I was a child to never stoop...

2006-09-27T08:47:00.000-06:00

My Dad taught me when I was a child to never stoop to the level of my enemy or lower my standards of conduct in dealing with my enemy. Dad taught me to go the extra mile with my enemy and "kill him with kindness". As a young man, I came to the realization that Dad was simply teaching me what he had learned from his father, my grandfather, who was a preacher. I guess Bush the Yonger never learned this lesson from Bush the Elder. I fear that we, as a people, are going to get bit in the behind on account of this lesson-never-learned.

will,your last paragraph was very poignant--Jesus ...

2006-09-26T18:08:00.000-06:00

will,

your last paragraph was very poignant--Jesus was tortured. too often, well, maybe it's just me...Jesus is referred to as getting "beaten". I think, the next time someone advocates torture, i'll respond by saying, "so are you saying that we should torture our captured foe like the romans tortured Jesus?" sad thing is, they weren't even trying to get a confession out of Him!

how pathetic...