tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post1069582768230391901..comments2017-04-13T04:47:21.148-06:00Comments on Pro Libertate: Is the Muslim My Neighbor?William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-69423649828829652662010-09-04T01:37:43.303-06:002010-09-04T01:37:43.303-06:00A couple of quick replies to scott in Dallas and L...A couple of quick replies to scott in Dallas and Lemuel Gulliver, if Will will permit me:<br /><br />Lemuel - You could not have quoted me in context and still justified your ridiculous assumptions. What I do or do not know about all the players you mentioned has not been discussed by me. When it comes to what I know, I should be your source - if you're honest, that is. Said assumptions reveal much about you, and nothing about me. Perhaps you'd care to come down off your cloud of condescending presumption and ask? More cleverly still, you could have followed my name to my own blog, and discerned where I'm coming from prior to putting your foot in your mouth.<br /><br />scott - you start with name calling, then expect anyone to consider your position? Do you actually believe that such behavior will interest anyone in anything you have to say?<br /><br />What you have unwittingly revealed, in your words to both myself and to Will, is the in your face nature of Islam's adherents that gives reasonable people pause. <br /><br />Such wisdom in your methods, both of you...fireplaceguyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09137875201699993308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-50269098028847925632010-08-30T03:54:53.598-06:002010-08-30T03:54:53.598-06:00Mister Spock:
I refer you to this link, which is ...Mister Spock:<br /><br />I refer you to this link, which is part of a website written by a Jew who has converted to Orthodox Christianity, and now does street demonstrations against Zionism and Jewish exceptionalism. He calls Himself Brother Nathanael:<br /><br />http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=156<br /><br />Here he quotes certain verses of the Talmud. Now, this comes from a Hebrew-fluent Jew, not a goyisch white man who misunderstands what he is reading. Quotations cited from the Talmud:<br /><br />* “If a ‘goy’ (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed.” (Sanhedrin 58b)<br /><br />* “If a Jew finds an object lost by a ‘goy’ it does not have to be returned.” (Baba Mezia 24a)<br /><br />* “If a Jew murders a ‘goy’ there will be no death penalty.” (Sanhedrin 57a)<br /><br />* What a Jew steals from a ‘goy’ he may keep.” (Sanhedrin 57a)<br /><br />* “Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a ‘goy.’” (Baba Kamma 113a)<br /><br />* “All children of the ‘goyim’ (Gentiles) are animals.” (Yebamoth 98a)<br /><br />* “Girls born of the ‘goyim’ are in a state of ‘niddah’ (menstrual uncleanness!) from birth.” (Abodah Zarah 36b)<br /><br />* “The ‘goyim’ are not humans. They are beasts.” (Baba Mezia 114b)<br /><br />* “If you eat with a ‘goy’ it is the same as eating with a dog.” (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)<br /><br />* “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15)<br /><br />* “Sexual intercourse between the ‘goyim’ is like intercourse between animals.” (Sanhedrin 74b)<br /><br />* “When it comes to a Gentile in peace times, one may harm him indirectly, for instance, by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice.” (Shulkan Arukh, Yoreh De ‘ah, 158, Hebrew Edition only) <br /><br />* “‘Yashu’ (derogatory for ‘Jesus’) is in Hell being boiled in hot excrement.” (Gittin 57a)<br /><br />[’Yashu’ is an acronym for the Jewish curse, ‘May his (Jesus) name be wiped out forevermore.’]<br /><br />* Yashu (Jesus) was sexually immoral and worshipped a brick.” (Sanhedrin 107b)<br /><br />* “Yashu (Jesus) was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness and refused to repent.” (Sotah 47a)<br /><br />* “Miriam the hairdresser had sex with many men.” (Shabbath 104b, Hebrew Edition only)<br /><br />* “She who was the descendant of princes and governors (the virgin Mary) played the harlot with carpenters.” (Sanhedrin 106a)<br /><br />* “Christians who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.” (Rosh Hashanah 17a) <br /><br />Brother Natanael concludes:<br /><br />"I WAS RAISED AS A JEW. Christendom has fawned all over the Jews for the last 60 years. But all of this is now coming to an end. Christians are waking up to the fact that Judaism and the Jews are haters of Jesus Christ, Christianity, and fervent Christians who preach the Gospel. <br />Do you wish to get a Talmudic Jew raving mad? Simply Tell That Jew That If He Does Not Accept Jesus Christ As His Lord & Saviour<br />He Is Going To Suffer In Hell!"<br /><br />Any more comments?<br /><br />Yours in Christ,<br />Lemuel Gulliver.Lemuel Gullivernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-29497656538637577032010-08-27T07:28:37.962-06:002010-08-27T07:28:37.962-06:00Mr. Grigg hasn't been able to write about more...<i>Mr. Grigg hasn't been able to write about more pertinent incidents; namely, the murders (and ensuing cover ups) of Trevon Cole and Erik Scott by the LVPD.</i><br /><br />JP -- Check back in about an hour or so....William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-55703818439098838402010-08-27T02:52:04.666-06:002010-08-27T02:52:04.666-06:00The worst part about the recent Islamophobia epide...The worst part about the recent Islamophobia epidemic is that Mr. Grigg hasn't been able to write about more pertinent incidents; namely, the murders (and ensuing cover ups) of Trevon Cole and Erik Scott by the LVPD. <br /><br />JPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-79191348246072503562010-08-27T02:39:40.770-06:002010-08-27T02:39:40.770-06:00On 911 I was working, we were told to follow the b...On 911 I was working, we were told to follow the boss outside and bow our heads and listen to his prayer words without being given any option to do otherwise.<br /><br />I didn't bow my head because I was being forced to, it wasn't right to be forced by a boss ( a stranger really) to pray. I think that is why I lost the job. Is that the type of action people are afraid the Muslims will bring to the U.S.?<br /><br />One of the other guys did the same. He made the comment, "they don't do this for the people killed on the roads everyday, why are these people so special and of higher value than the kid who died by himself after a car wreck?"<br /><br />This Ground Zero mess is much like the spot on the side of the road where my friend died. It's not a holy place, or a grave yard, it's just a spot on the side of the road. There are millions just like it and when someone else builds another road or a building on top of that spot (not down the block mind you) no one says anything, nor should they. I don't see how this Ground Zero spot is any different than any other spot where someone died.<br /><br />Only, their deaths are being used for political purposes, and that seems very very wrong. Are they being used the same way suicide bombers are, "over there" in the Mideast?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-64953347102968193162010-08-25T22:38:40.942-06:002010-08-25T22:38:40.942-06:00"It’s the Jews! It's the Jews!"
App..."It’s the Jews! It's the Jews!"<br /><br />Apparently anti-Semite Lemuel Gulliver blames the Jews for everything. Sad. In his rage against the Jews, he was unable to see that in the very same Wikipedia article he quoted, it is made abundantly clear that the renunciation of oaths and pledges has exactly the opposite meaning than the one he attributes to it.<br /><br />LG's statement, <br /><br /><i>"In other words, they solemnly swear and affirm before Almighty God that they will lie, cheat, and deceive in everything they say and every promise they make, until they reaffirm the same pledge at the next Passover service,"</i><br /><br />is a lie in addition to being exactly wrong. As the same Wiki article states,<br /><br />"Introduced into the liturgy despite the opposition of some rabbinic authorities, attacked in the course of time by some rabbis, and in the nineteenth century expunged from the prayer-book by many communities of western Europe, Kol Nidrei has often been employed out of context by some to claim that Jews cannot be trusted…<br /><br />"Philip Birnbaum, in his classic edition of the Mahzor (High holy day prayer book) comments on this passage: "It refers to vows assumed by <b>an individual for himself alone, where no other persons or interests are involved.</b> [my emphasis] Though the context makes it perfectly obvious that no vows or obligations towards others are implied, there have been many who were misled into believing that by means of this formula all their vows and oaths are annulled…"<br /><br />"The Kol Nidrei prayer has been used by non-Jews as a basis for asserting that an oath taken by a Jew may not be trusted…<br /><br />"Rabbis have always pointed out that the dispensation from vows in Kol Nidrei refers only to those <b>an individual voluntarily assumes for himself alone and no other persons or their interests are involved in.</b> [my emphasis] The formula is restricted to those vows <b>between man and God alone; they have no effect on vows made between one man and another. No vow, promise, or oath that concerns another person, a court of justice, or a community</b> [my emphasis] is implied in Kol Nidrei. According to Jewish doctrine, the sole purpose of this prayer is to give protection from divine punishment in case of violation of the vow…<br /><br />"As pointed out above, many rabbis state that the vows referred to are applicable only to the individual, and not interpersonally. It refers only to vows between the person making them and God, such as "If I pass this test, I'll pray every day for the next 6 months!"<br /><br />"Because this prayer has often been held up by anti-Semites as proof that Jews are untrustworthy, the Reform movement removed it from the liturgy for a while. In fact, the reverse is true: Jews make this prayer because they take vows so seriously that they consider themselves bound even if they make the vows under duress or in times of stress when not thinking straight."<br /><br />(Sorry for the length of this post, but it was necessary to point out LG's dishonesty, which, unfortunately, is all too typical of collectivists like him. Back to the subject at hand asap.)Mister Spocknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-54240375530833238782010-08-25T19:31:02.619-06:002010-08-25T19:31:02.619-06:00In fact, Scott in Dallas, I'm looking for Isla...In fact, Scott in Dallas, I'm looking for Islam to make some serious headway in this country as I would suspect that most weak-minded, indecisive and increasingly effeminate societies to eventually succumb to anyway. Matriarchal societies are not generally viable long term. Some of the bombastic, matriarchal Celtic tribes, led by "power" mamas, learned that the hard way by the hands of patriarchal and <i>disciplined</i> Romans.<br /><br />Naturally, there were specific, God-ordained, exceptions in history where women played key roles, like Esther and Jeanne d'Arc, but these women were influential ironically because they lived in a patriarchal society (d'oh!).<br /><br />The West will die because of their debauchery and weakness of the mind or by the attendant demographic realities that currently plague it. So be it.<br /><br />Death to Ameri<b>k</b>a!dixiedoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09845646940134894119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-63703265573216358692010-08-25T19:28:47.508-06:002010-08-25T19:28:47.508-06:00Self-government/self-control means that someone po...Self-government/self-control means that someone possesses a viable (God-ordained) moral compass in which they <i>choose</i> to do or not to do something based on it being an absolute <i>right</i> or <i>wrong</i> and/OR it being <i>wise</i> or <i>unwise</i>. In essence, just because I CAN (legally) do something, doesn't mean I WILL (morally) do it. Or the converse, just because I CAN'T do something doesn't mean I WON'T do it.<br /><br />Our republic was only possible for folk who could manage to generally educate themselves, collectively (private collective) or individually, and self-govern. After all, that's really the only way Leviathan can be kept to a more or less limited, minimal state. Since the aggregate of modern folk can't self-govern and Leviathan is their true "god," even though they'd deny it, Leviathan thus grows like a cancer. No surprise. Chuck Baldwin <a href="http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin600.htm" rel="nofollow">wrote</a> about this unfortunate reality.<br /><br />Speaking on just the economic materialistic aspect of these sins, commoners can't blame politicians for their <i>own</i> greedy desire to obtain stuff they can't really afford themselves through debt OR with other folks' money using Leviathan as a proxy. The politicians (upstream reflection of the "mere" mundanes) merely follow through with what the <i>damned</i> mundanes demand to start with, unless a particular mundane demand in question runs counter to their own agenda(s), of course. Since mundane greed and depravity actually helps a power monger politician's desire for more power (sigh...), it plays right into their hands and makes their agenda (more control) MUCH easier to attain.<br /><br />Ergo, welcome to pagan America!dixiedoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09845646940134894119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-84179417597404799442010-08-25T19:26:23.069-06:002010-08-25T19:26:23.069-06:00I've written some controversial stuff, why don...<i>I've written some controversial stuff, why don't you guys address it? Or, are your convictions that watered down?</i><br /><br />HAHA, please, my sides ache. <i>Everyone</i>'s convictions are somewhat watered down, some more or less so. <i>Everyone</i> on the 'net writes "controversial" (by PC wonk sensibilities anyway) stuff every now and again.<br /><br />Speaking for moi, I'm not one who tends to follow a " humanoid herd," whatever the makeup of said herd. I'm probably more of an individualist than even our gracious host here and becoming more so every day.<br /><br />That said, even though I'm techno literate, I'm also more akin to so-called "rednecks" and/or mildly educated country folk in general than high-minded, educated (thoroughly indoctrinated), arrogant blue-bloods and/or otherwise urban jungle savants. I know I don't fit any of the convenient stereotypes.<br /><br />I grow ever more tired of "mere" mundanes of <i>every</i> and <i>any</i> creed blaming an upstream abstraction like "government" for their own greed, their own lawlessness, their own rage, their own lack of self-control, their own self-delusions, their own ignorance, etc. I also loathe this idea from some corners that Leviathan is <i>the</i> only enemy and that it divides us. Pure nonsense as there are plenty of <i>damned</i> mundanes I have ZERO in common with and wouldn't partner with EVER, PERIOD, regardless of where, or how, the grand abstraction called "government" stands.<br /><br />That said, Muslim mundanes, "Christian" mundanes, pagan mundanes, et al ALL play by Lenin's maxim, "Who does [gets] what to [from] whom" as Will has mentioned before.dixiedoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09845646940134894119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-3855456595937099552010-08-25T15:08:50.194-06:002010-08-25T15:08:50.194-06:00It is funny to think that modern day nationalist &...It is funny to think that modern day nationalist "Christians" would invade and overthrow Israel circa the books of Judges or Kings/Chronicles for either being "failed states" or having non-democratic governments, etc.<br /><br />Military power beyond what is necessary to protect oneself is a very bad thing. It leads one to get very inventive in finding ways to use it on others, usually increasing the need to protect oneself.<br /><br />Jim O'ConnorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-3335690504277885152010-08-25T10:40:15.179-06:002010-08-25T10:40:15.179-06:00"I've written some controversial stuff, w..."I've written some controversial stuff, why don't you guys address it?" - SiD<br /><br />Scott, maybe there isn't anything to "address". I post a lot over at antiwar.com, such as yourself, and don't get a response very often, if at all. I'm simply grateful that Will, yourself, and others, even bother to hammer out these essays and comments with the weight of daily life pressing in on us from all sides. That's also why I fully expect there to be another incident just around the corner to sidetrack the country's masses and get them focused on fresh bogeymen and not peer to closely at the lies that are growing and are harder to hide. Why bother covering up old lies when you can create NEW ones with fresh corpses! It's the American way.MoThttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13996714804361467430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-89703934711788859502010-08-25T06:16:24.602-06:002010-08-25T06:16:24.602-06:00It's more than a bit nasty that we incite a ci...It's more than a bit nasty that we incite a civil war in Afghanistan and Iraq and then condemn them for fighting among themselves. It's more than nasty that we install dictators, demand they betray their people and then condemn them for fighting. <br /><br />In truth, the Quran doesn't permit this behavior, but the Declaration of Independence does. The Dec. of Ind. say those living under tyranny have a right and duty to alter and abolish that tyranny. Furthermore, since WE are sponsoring these dictators, in violation of our supposed support for democracy, they have a right and duty to fight US. Not by the the Quran, but by our own traditions. <br /><br />Remember that other lesson of Jesus, don't point out the splinter in your neighbor's eye, when you have a log in your own.<br /><br />Scott in Dallas. <br /><br />I've written some controversial stuff, why don't you guys address it? Or, are your convictions that watered down? <br /><br />Thank you William for this forum, inshah Allah, you will find deliverance from your hardship.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-44966184862155139832010-08-24T22:14:05.183-06:002010-08-24T22:14:05.183-06:00If Haniyeh's support of Christians was motivat...If Haniyeh's support of Christians was motivated by love, it was probably of the Marxian type. The presidents of Iran and Venezuela appear to share this same love for each other even though they should be ideological enemies if one is a true theocrat and the other a true socialist. It sure does make one wonder. If it is real love then there is hope. If not, the same old politics is at work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-63323636653643492312010-08-24T21:29:44.913-06:002010-08-24T21:29:44.913-06:00Will, thanks for letting us know about your possib...Will, thanks for letting us know about your possible part-time editorial job. You are so overdue some good news for a change!<br /><br />This was another thought-provoking post. Your point is well taken regarding our need to be ‘good Samaritans’ to those we encounter, regardless of race or religion. <br /><br />As a theonomist, my hope is that one day the Christian law code will become the norm for governments. This wouldn’t mean that the church would rule over the civil government, but instead all institutions would be directly under the authority of God, including the civil government, the church, the family, businesses, and so forth. <br /><br />Of course, since the Christian law code is intended for the maintenance of an already Christian society, it wouldn’t really be feasible in a godless society like our own, which was largely founded on abstract notions of ‘freedom’ and ‘liberty’, instead of organic ‘real’ things like religion, culture, and language. <br /><br />And because the Christian law code wouldn’t allow any other religions to be practiced, this would eliminate so many of the problems that plague our nation. Rather than acknowledging that neutrality is a myth, our government tries to claim neutrality, while practicing the religion of humanism! Trying to maintain any kind of order in this pluralistic society is an effort in futility.Ex-JBSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-4589248343244779552010-08-24T19:57:47.767-06:002010-08-24T19:57:47.767-06:00Deuce, thanks for your thoughtful and candid comme...Deuce, thanks for your thoughtful and candid comment -- and particularly for your kind words about my family. <br /><br /><i>The issue of the SPECIFIC location of this ONE Muslim community center is nothing more than a zoning consideration. That alone makes it a municipality issue, while you, an alleged libertarian, make it a commentary on the entire country, in direct defiance of the state sovreignty you preach.</i><br /><br />First of all, I consider the practice of zoning -- like "eminent domain" -- to be abominable. (In this connection I have to point out that I consider "state sovereignty" useful only insofar as it enhances protections for individual rights, rather than detracts from them.)<br /><br />Secondly, it was the GOP's Department of Mass Agitation (or whatever they call that apparat) that nationalized this issue. <br /><br />Newt Gingrich has never represented any constituency in New York, nor has Sarah Palin -- yet they cynically turned this "municipality issue" into a national furor, and almost every Republican candidate has joined the parade. <br /><br />During the past several days, the "Ground Zero Mosque" has been practically the <i>only</i> subject of discussion on both national and local radio talk shows broadcast here in Idaho. I'm as disgusted as you appear to be that this has become a national issue, but here we are nonetheless -- and this issue is being used by both branches of the War Party to promote collectivist hatred.<br /><br />If this is only about the "Ground Zero Mosque," why are there similar protests underway against Muslim houses of worship and culture across the nation? <br /><br />Furthermore, are you comfortable with Mr. Johnson's view that "great Americans" are those who sacrifice their rights to placate the sensibilities of others? How is that materially different from the <i>left-wing</i> version of political correctness? <br /><br />It's a little difficult to believe that Muslims <i>anywhere</i> are engaging in violence comparable to that inflicted on Muslim countries by our government. Averaging out the death toll of the past 20 years, Iraq has endured the equivalent of a 9/11 <i>every day</i>. <br /><br />It's difficult to see how even the likes of Hamas and al-Qaeda (as well as Islamic terrorist groups that <i>weren't</i> created with Washington's help) could compete with that kind of track record.William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-28604279544164312232010-08-24T15:14:10.805-06:002010-08-24T15:14:10.805-06:00William, I always love your LRC postings but you, ...William, I always love your LRC postings but you, and many of the regulars on LRC have gone to the darkside on this one.<br /><br />First and foremost, there is not a constitutional issue to be found in this debate. The fact is Mosques ARE allowed to be built in this country and Muslims have the right to own property and fully exercise it best I can tell. The issue of the SPECIFIC location of this ONE Muslim community center is nothing more than a zoning consideration. That alone makes it a municipality issue, while you, an alleged libertarian, make it a commentary on the entire country, in direct defiance of the state sovreignty you preach. <br /><br />Also, your attempt to extrapolate one Christian extremist's viewpoint to the whole debate is disingenuous and invalid. Not every person who has a conscientious objection to this community center is a Fox News watcher or the likes of Mr. Fischer, but if you choose to engage in this type of mindless sloganeering then maybe YOU should be the one working for Fox News. <br /><br />Finally, and most dispicibly, you spend the first several paragraphs describing Muslims firebombing a Catholic Church over some comments someone half a world away made about Mohammed. Then you wash that away with no remourse to move on to villifying Americans. And villify them over what? Having a perfectly rational debate about how tasteful it would be to build a muslim community center just a few blocks from the site where a similarly violent and senseless violent attack in the name of Islam took thousands of innocent lives. Excuse if we can let go of rampant and senseless killing in the name of religion as easily as you. Muslims ARE MORE GUILTY OF THIS IN THE HERE AND NOW. PERIOD. There is no caveat or wiggle room on this fact. Look at Gaza. Look at Darfur. I never would have guessed you falling to the depths of such cognitive dissonance to make a point so void of logic or perspective, but there it is. <br /><br />Shame on you William Gregg. You and the LRC regulars are fighting the wrong fight and alienating even the most staunch libertarians like myself to make an inane point. Its a zoning issue. Period. Not a soap box for attacking your political enemies with generalizations or "playing to one side". We already have two parties clouding logic and reason that way. <br /><br />That said congrats on the new job. I, of course, still have a lot of respect for you and am happy to hear that you are making it in these tough times. All the best....Deucenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-54605144938423904882010-08-24T14:45:03.298-06:002010-08-24T14:45:03.298-06:00Cody, I find it cynically comical that Uncle Sam r...Cody, I find it cynically comical that Uncle Sam rattles his thousands of nuclear sabers at Iran that has none while also crying foul about their developing the very same type of drones that the US uses mercilessly to kill everyone, including civilians. That our political pimps continue to spew their lying bilge with a straight face is amazing. Even more amazing are the purported "polls" that tell us that the majority of Americans believe Iran has to be stopped. Stopped from doing what? In fact I doubt that the polls are even real anymore but are likewise psyops used to manipulate and cover the lies with a veneer of "authenticity".MoThttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13996714804361467430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-89274411127791603412010-08-24T13:28:04.213-06:002010-08-24T13:28:04.213-06:00The neocons are itching for a war against Iran. Do...<i>The neocons are itching for a war against Iran. Do you think it's possible that this entire "controversy" was created by the state to serve as anti-Muslim war propaganda?</i><br /><br />I think it would be safe to bet a year's salary on that.liberranterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00555275410576294081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-34349272480562189022010-08-24T08:27:56.080-06:002010-08-24T08:27:56.080-06:00Excellent post as always, Will. I would like to to...Excellent post as always, Will. I would like to touch on something you wrote in one of your comments.<br /><br />"I'm so cynical that I would be surprised if this weren't the case. That's not to say that Abdel-Rauf is a conscious player in a scheme of that kind (a possibility I'm willing to entertain), but rather that this is the use to which this controversy is being put."<br /><br />We know that Imam Rauf has worked for the FBI in the past. Is it possible that this "ground zero mosque" issue was manufactured expressly for the purpose of whipping the population into an anti-Muslim frenzy so that they would be more willing to support a war against Iran? <br /><br />And on top of this "issue," the regime propagandists in the media are now hyping the "threat" posed by Iran's Big, Scary Predator Drone.<br /><br />The neocons are itching for a war against Iran. Do you think it's possible that this entire "controversy" was created by the state to serve as anti-Muslim war propaganda?Codynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-1489718601491424042010-08-24T08:14:13.546-06:002010-08-24T08:14:13.546-06:00Scott -- sorry about the delay in getting your com...Scott -- sorry about the delay in getting your comments posted, but even I have to get at least a little sleep sometime. :-)William N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-70005107078064249632010-08-24T07:25:28.564-06:002010-08-24T07:25:28.564-06:00Boy, so much for reasoned debate. You're look...Boy, so much for reasoned debate. You're looking like a fraud. If for some reason you've not seen my first post, yet, no need to include these last two, but, it's not looking good for you.<br /><br />Scott in DallasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-82311206388871581342010-08-24T06:19:12.500-06:002010-08-24T06:19:12.500-06:00accidentally delete my post too? Scott in Dallasaccidentally delete my post too? Scott in DallasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-7306140393818345792010-08-24T06:13:38.763-06:002010-08-24T06:13:38.763-06:00Will - God bless you and your family! These are t...Will - God bless you and your family! These are trying times for many of us. God will make things right again in the world. <br /><br />Fantastic column and even better comment debate. <br />There is no place in the interpretation of the law for the word 'should'. 'Should' something be done leaves the determination up to a person or group, in effect imposing their belief or opinion on someone else. <br />'Should' a filthy show like 'Bachelor Pad' be broadcast on TV? Who makes that determination if not the market?<br />I would like to see the Pentagon dismantled and a Mosque, Synagogue, Church, or giant convenience store erected in it's place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-26732912120857175582010-08-24T05:52:01.112-06:002010-08-24T05:52:01.112-06:00Fireplace fool, I HAVE read the Quran, you apparen...Fireplace fool, I HAVE read the Quran, you apparently haven't read either the Quran nor the Old Testament. <br /><br />There is NOTHING in the Quran as vile and inhumane as those tales recorded in the Book of Joshua. In that book, Joshua and his followers Murder every Man, Woman and Child, often all the animals to boot. They do this under a deceitful rouse, conspiring with a whore where they are invited dinner guest, murdering first their hosts then all the cities inhabitants. <br /><br />Again, nothing in the Quran, nothing in Muslim history compares to this. <br /><br />This doesn't condemn Jews or all who believe in the Bible. But rather shows it to be an equivocal work. <br /><br />Mr. Grigg wrongly states that there is nothing in Hamas or Muslims generally that would have them follow the Golden Rule, this is another false statement born of ignorance, though I appreciate his sentiments here generally. <br /><br />The very first commandment states that we should worship nothing of this Earth, no man, no nation, nothing. I dare say we should use the Golden Rule to test the morality of everything. <br /><br />I won't claim that the Quran is without error, nor that it has no verses that aren't problematic. I challenge you fireplaceguy, to get a copy of the Quran and to check the passages you've no doubt been offered out of context. Just read the verses immediately before and after the "kill them where you find them" quotes. You will find them so qualified, so limited you will know utter sophists have torn those verses (iyats) out of context you'll know you've been played for a fool. <br /><br />scott in DallasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-90902635206493431682010-08-24T04:42:40.286-06:002010-08-24T04:42:40.286-06:00Fireplaceguy,
You said: "I don't necessa...Fireplaceguy,<br /><br />You said: "I don't necessarily hold the radical Muslims up as the scapegoat for 9/11 and all terrorism, but there is no doubt that they play a significant role in our oppression."<br /><br />You have GOT to be kidding. You mean the financial elites, the banksters, the politicians who suck at the tits of the corporations, the military contractors - Halliburton, Blackwater, et al - the fundamentalist Christian preachers who endorse torture and assassination, all these you overlook in order to place our loss of liberty at the feet of Muslims? What planet are you living on?<br /><br />There is no monolithic "Islam," any more than there is a monolithic "Christianity." You cannot conflate a Quaker with a Pentecostal with a Catholic with a Mormon. All of these claim to be followers of Christ.<br /><br />There are Moslem women in bikinis on the beaches of Beirut. There are Moslem women with lipstick and jewelry on the streets of Tehran. There are Moslem women in head-to-toe burqas in Afghanistan and Yemen. There are Moslems drinking alcohol in Istanbul. There are Moslems beheading women for adultery, and men for witchcraft, in Saudi Arabia. (Anyone remember Salem, Massachussetts, 1650?)<br /><br />Like any religion, Moslems create their image of God according to their own culture and personal failings. If they are an angry people, they envision an angry God. (Witness Jehovah in the Bible. No race is more resentful of disrespect and holding of grudges and given to everlasting vengeance than the Jews. And their god Jehovah is just the same.) If they are a peaceful people, they envision a peaceful God. If they are a fogiving people, they envision a forgiving God. If they are a violent people, they envision a violent God. All under the same religious umbrella.<br /><br />So Muslims from Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan envision an Allah of vengeance and hatred, just like the isolated tribal traditions from which those people come. Muslims from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Lebanon, Syria, Turkey and Jordan envision a forgiving and peaceful Allah, just like those cosmopolitan societies, which have had close contacts with Europe since the year 1100.<br /><br />Moslems are people just like us. Exactly like us. Creating Allah in their own image, just as we create our own personal God in our own image. Angry Christians create an angry God. Loving Christians create a loving God.<br /><br />Come down off your cloud of ignorance and smell the coffee.<br /><br />Lemuel Gulliver.Lemuel Gullivernoreply@blogger.com